2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

There is no need to file Section 6, all three IAM groups are in Section 6 negotiations.
 
Your previous post you stated:
 
 

This isn't about good vs evil Roabilly, it's about US AIRWAYS.  By your logic you are saying that AH doesn't really care about cost structures when he compares American vs United? 
 
I am fully aware of what CB said.  I can't refute what he said at this time other than to say what he says doesn't match up with the official stance of The Alliance Q & A. 
 United NC said the same thing and actually stayed in stand alone talks for a full year after single certificate was issued. What CB says has no juice since it has no authority.  What concerns me is what Delaney said.  Going by opinions of certain NC members on social media isn't the option to focus on, and we learned by past IAM141 members that listening to non official personal feeling or any other subjectiveness shouldn't be what we consider.  Focusing on what the 'official' stance is what I focus on.  The official stance is as follows:
 
". The IAM will continue bargaining with US Airways for its current members at the stand-­‐alone carrier until the National Mediation Board determines US Airways and American Airlines are operating as a single carrier.", Alliance Q & A: Part 1
 
We also know that the the TWU will have to file a single carrier application by July 3 or it will yield to "The Association" filing it for them.  Remember, the Associaiton doesn't have to be certified yet to file this, especially as the TWU will give it the full powers. But either the TWU or the agents of the TWU will in fact file this by July 3.  Once it is filed, the NMB may rule single carrier by late summer.  So sometime, by the IAM's own admission, it will cease stand alone talks if no agreement is reached prior to single carrier.  That's the legal end of it.  Until then, due to elections, it makes good sense for IAM141 eboard members to blow smoke and say that no single carrier application will be filed even though the reality of the situation is that AH secured a contract with the TWU that forces them or its agents to file the single carrier before July 3.
 
Join 2,300 IAM 141 members in this facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/IAMVOTINGIAM/

 

[Tim Nelson]

There is no need to file Section 6, all three IAM groups are in Section 6 negotiations.
 
Your previous post you stated:

going into joint talks is a whole new set of negotiations. There are no stand alone negotiations in joint nehotiations.

The subject is stand alone talks and the iam official position is that stand alone talks only until a single carrier. Those are the official words

 

[charlie Brown]

This isn't about good vs evil Roabilly, it's about US AIRWAYS.  By your logic you are saying that AH doesn't really care about cost structures when he compares American vs United? 
 
I am fully aware of what CB said.  I can't refute what he said at this time other than to say what he says doesn't match up with the official stance of The Alliance Q & A. 
 United NC said the same thing and actually stayed in stand alone talks for a full year after single certificate was issued. What CB says has no juice since it has no authority.  What concerns me is what Delaney said.  Going by opinions of certain NC members on social media isn't the option to focus on, and we learned by past IAM141 members that listening to non official personal feeling or any other subjectiveness shouldn't be what we consider.  Focusing on what the 'official' stance is what I focus on.  The official stance is as follows:
 
". The IAM will continue bargaining with US Airways for its current members at the stand-­‐alone carrier until the National Mediation Board determines US Airways and American Airlines are operating as a single carrier.", Alliance Q & A: Part 1
 
We also know that the the TWU will have to file a single carrier application by July 3 or it will yield to "The Association" filing it for them.  Remember, the Associaiton doesn't have to be certified yet to file this, especially as the TWU will give it the full powers. But either the TWU or the agents of the TWU will in fact file this by July 3.  Once it is filed, the NMB may rule single carrier by late summer.  So sometime, by the IAM's own admission, it will cease stand alone talks if no agreement is reached prior to single carrier.  That's the legal end of it.  Until then, due to elections, it makes good sense for IAM141 eboard members to blow smoke and say that no single carrier application will be filed even though the reality of the situation is that AH secured a contract with the TWU that forces them or its agents to file the single carrier before July 3.
 
Join 2,300 IAM 141 members in this facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/IAMVOTINGIAM/

When I come on here to make statements, I am just trying to educate the membership the best I can. Tim you of course are right that I am not the official word of the IAM. I am merely trying to tell the membership how being one of the members of the NC, how we feel about section 6 vs joint talks. Myself alone doesn't have much juice, however the committee as a whole I think will collectively decide things and what's best for our members, and we are listening to our members. I can also assure you this filing by the TWU has also been covered, and your concerns have long ago been brought up and discussed. Not going to really talk about it on here except to say it is my opinion that you will see the TWU yielding to the association.

 

[ograc]

At this point I believe we are like active duty soldiers awaiting orders for engagement of the enemy. Everyone is anxious and considering the "what ifs" and possibilities. Bringing up past history of labor vs. management contract negotiations that may or may not be revelant. Predictions based on speculation and interpretation.The fact is... no one can be certain, the union or the company, what our collective future holds.  In the meantime let's hope for the best and prepare for the worst. How do we prepare for the worst? We need solidarity building. Any predictions on what will come of the scheduled March meetings with the NMB? Plenty of speculation and opinions I'm sure; but no one knows for sure. One thing is certain. If we are going to achieve any substantial improvements in our collective working conditions through section 6 negotiations it's going to take resolve from the NC and the District. Additionally, it's going to REQUIRE a solidified membership! Know the enemy. We can rest assurred they will be prepared.

 

[P. REZ]

This isn't about good vs evil Roabilly, it's about US AIRWAYS.  By your logic you are saying that AH doesn't really care about cost structures when he compares American vs United? 
 
I am fully aware of what CB said.  I can't refute what he said at this time other than to say what he says doesn't match up with the official stance of The Alliance Q & A. 
 United NC said the same thing and actually stayed in stand alone talks for a full year after single certificate was issued. What CB says has no juice since it has no authority.  What concerns me is what Delaney said.  Going by opinions of certain NC members on social media isn't the option to focus on, and we learned by past IAM141 members that listening to non official personal feeling or any other subjectiveness shouldn't be what we consider.  Focusing on what the 'official' stance is what I focus on.  The official stance is as follows:
 
". The IAM will continue bargaining with US Airways for its current members at the stand-­‐alone carrier until the National Mediation Board determines US Airways and American Airlines are operating as a single carrier.", Alliance Q & A: Part 1
 
We also know that the the TWU will have to file a single carrier application by July 3 or it will yield to "The Association" filing it for them.  Remember, the Associaiton doesn't have to be certified yet to file this, especially as the TWU will give it the full powers. But either the TWU or the agents of the TWU will in fact file this by July 3.  Once it is filed, the NMB may rule single carrier by late summer.  So sometime, by the IAM's own admission, it will cease stand alone talks if no agreement is reached prior to single carrier.  That's the legal end of it.  Until then, due to elections, it makes good sense for IAM141 eboard members to blow smoke and say that no single carrier application will be filed even though the reality of the situation is that AH secured a contract with the TWU that forces them or its agents to file the single carrier before July 3.
 
Join 2,300 IAM 141 members in this facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/IAMVOTINGIAM/

Tim,
 
"The IAM’s position is that US Airways must fulfill its bargaining responsibilities with the IAM before joint negotiations begin."
 
This is the rest of the answer to that question about the alliance. Granted, we know the Company is hoping we don't get released and that  the NMB continues to be inactive, however we have stated that we are here to fight. Why did you leave that part out? You should quote whole answers not partial ones.
 
P. Rez 

 

[Solidarity]

Some members of the NC will be in PHX this coming Monday, March 10 to speak with the membership there.  I am being told that at least 5 NC members will be there to address the process that Fleet is going to experience.  From what I gather it will be in the British Airways Conference room on the International Concourse of Terminal 4 in Sky Harbor Airport from 7:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.  Everyone in PHX should take a little time out of their day to listen and ask questions.

 

[Solidarity]

Roa, why did the IAM go straight into JCBA talks at UA? They wanted the dues for unorganized sCO passenger service. Ramp they were able to administer the newly organized IBT agreement but PCE they wanted the dues.

Josh

If I am not mistaken the sCO pax service still had to go to a vote and sCO had the numbers to defeat in an election......but chose to have a represented group rather than be subject to an "at will" company philosophy

 

[Solidarity]

After the guy's looked at Kirby's new twelve million dollar house, they are ready for the picit line and fired up.........thanks for whoever posted that on the forum, it was like throwing gas on a fire.

Local station management will not be getting a piece of the profit sharing for this year.  Instead they got a 2% increase in base wage.  I guess Scott Kirby likes screwing anyone, anywhere where he sees fit.  Ask a certain flight attendant that he violated years back on the station mangers desk in MCI.  The house is ONLY a gift to his wife for nailing another flight attendant and planting his seed.  (See Kobe buying his wife a giant rock a couple years back for a misguided adventures in Colorado (good thing Weed wasn't legal then.
 
We need to focus on coming together rather than airing our gripes.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
"The IAM’s position is that US Airways must fulfill its bargaining responsibilities with the IAM before joint negotiations begin."
 
This is the rest of the answer to that question about the alliance. Granted, we know the Company is hoping we don't get released and that  the NMB continues to be inactive, however we have stated that we are here to fight. Why did you leave that part out? You should quote whole answers not partial ones.
 
P. Rez 

 lol, what does that statement mean??? It says absolutely nothing.   The NMB"s position is that US AIRWAYS must also fulfill its bargaining responsibilities.  
 
What is significant, is that whatever those responsibilities are, the IAM put a duration on them by telling the members that stand alone talks will only be up until a single carrier.  No members should be misled to believe otherwise.  Believe what the IAM has officially published.  Not what some leaders have said on social media.
 
If negotiations stay stalled, and the association is forced to file single carrier as expected by July 3, then a single carrier will be granted probably around September unless there is some political intervention. Same sh*t was said to United.  After the IAM141 eboard Sh*t them, members said "But you said we would negotiate a stand alone".   The answer was "No we didn't".    And, to be sure, the IAM leaders have NOT promised stand alone past single carrier.  That's troublesome.  But I'm sure AH knows this all too well.

 

[Tim Nelson]

When I come on here to make statements, I am just trying to educate the membership the best I can. Tim you of course are right that I am not the official word of the IAM. I am merely trying to tell the membership how being one of the members of the NC, how we feel about section 6 vs joint talks. Myself alone doesn't have much juice, however the committee as a whole I think will collectively decide things and what's best for our members, and we are listening to our members. I can also assure you this filing by the TWU has also been covered, and your concerns have long ago been brought up and discussed. Not going to really talk about it on here except to say it is my opinion that you will see the TWU yielding to the association.

The Association officially has stated that as well.  So in this case, your opinion and the official stance is one and the same.  I don't have any issue on this subject.

 

[necigrad]

This is the rest of the answer to that question about the alliance. Granted, we know the Company is hoping we don't get released and that  the NMB continues to be inactive, however we have stated that we are here to fight. Why did you leave that part out? You should quote whole answers not partial ones.
 
P. Rez 

Oh the irony considering he always whines about supposedly being "quote mined".

 

[ograc]

Some members of the NC will be in PHX this coming Monday, March 10 to speak with the membership there.  I am being told that at least 5 NC members will be there to address the process that Fleet is going to experience.  From what I gather it will be in the British Airways Conference room on the International Concourse of Terminal 4 in Sky Harbor Airport from 7:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.  Everyone in PHX should take a little time out of their day to listen and ask questions.

Agreed! Everyone should take the time to be informed. To get the information and opinions directly from the NC rather than hearing second and third hand spin on what was said. Too bad these meetings couldn't somehow be mandatory. As in... no attendance ... no vote.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Agreed! Everyone should take the time to be informed. To get the information and opinions directly from the NC rather than hearing second and third hand spin on what was said. Too bad these meetings couldn't somehow be mandatory. As in... no attendance ... no vote.

I don't think we will be getting any fair agreement any time soon.  So the question that needs to be asked is why did the IAM leaders turn over the witches hourglass and put a duration on these talks?  That's the elephant in the room. THAT"S what AH likes.  It's a legit question and saying that the TWU will yield to the association doesn't change the outcome or the timetable since AH has this under the TWU contract already. The TWU either file single carrier by July 3, or allow the association to be its agent and do so for it by July 3 [most likely], or intentionally break their contract and have AH file an injunction asking for severe synergy damages for breach of contract.  Everything else is BS.
 
We can be very certain that unless there is a release or some political favor, AH will get his single carrier status around September. The IAM's official position is that it will negotiate stand alone until the NMB's single carrier ruling. 

 

[Solidarity]

I don't think we will be getting any fair agreement any time soon.  So the question that needs to be asked is why did the IAM leaders turn over the witches hourglass and put a duration on these talks?  That's the elephant in the room. THAT"S what AH likes. 
 
We can be very certain that unless there is a release or some political favor, AH will get his single carrier status around September. The IAM's official position is that it will negotiate stand alone until the NMB's single carrier ruling. 

Tim,
 
Are you able to make it PHX this coming Monday?

 

[robbedagain]

TIM   how can the TWU file for SCS when its suppose to be a joint thing with the IAM and the TWU?   secondly  its my understanding that the TWU may or will support the IAM should we get released and into  a strike at the end of a 30 day cooling off period.   I also like how our NC is standing their grounds for SECT 6 talks before  JCBA