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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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necigrad said:
If that's their plan, I have a simple solution.  The longer this drags out, the more I need in return.  The NC has stopped coming down, but in my opinion they now need to start going UP!  Going down or keeping the status quo benefits the company.  Tell them no more by adding 1% to the unions last proposal.
when the environment changes, proposals need to go up.  The company makes proposals go down when their profits miss.  With a release, my assumption is that the NC understands this and will up the proposal.  A release would demand that.
 
necigrad said:
If that's their plan, I have a simple solution.  The longer this drags out, the more I need in return.  The NC has stopped coming down, but in my opinion they now need to start going UP!  Going down or keeping the status quo benefits the company.  Tell them no more by adding 1% to the unions last proposal.
How about 2% after all they owe us at least the amount over a couple years. 2% + the 2% retro
 
mike33 said:
How about 2% after all they owe us at least the amount over a couple years. 2% + the 2% retro
I certainly think that retro should be back on the table.
 
Tim Nelson said:
Glass was brought in the last time they met face to face and asked for the IAM demands and said he wants a deal done.  He usually comes in at the end. Unfortunately, nothing since then. 
 
IMO, maybe they are waiting for our 6 demands to go down to 3 demands and just get a token pay raise. leaving the release and leverage at the door?  It's important for the NC to stick to focusing on a release instead of going lower again on our offer.   We must gain some scope in any situation though.
Tim,
 
The Company has said that the offer is exactly what  AA makes and have already told the NMB that they were done negotiating. We need to be ready to strike, PERIOD. IMO, the Company is betting on SCS and inaction by the NMB.
 
P. Rez
 
P. REZ said:
Tim,
 
The Company has said that the offer is exactly what  AA makes and have already told the NMB that they were done negotiating. We need to be ready to strike, PERIOD. IMO, the Company is betting on SCS and inaction by the NMB.
 
P. Rez
Certainly that is what their plan is.  Yeah, that's what they told the NMB, but then that would mean that the NMB scheduled negotiations in two weeks to be an exercise in futility until the NMB rules.
 
Tim Nelson said:
Our NC has made it very clear that they have 6 things that are its bottom offer, including sAA pay scale.  And they made it very clear that there is no further compromise and that we are at an impasse and need to prepare to strike.
 
But what do you think AH actions will be?  Going into the March negotiations, I think all of us have said we fully support the NC current position, but I'm curious as to what you all think AH position will be in March negotiations??
 
To be fair, my opinion is that AH will tweak up his proposal just to show movement and to further delay a release. As best I understand, his current proposal was for $21 and change, but no further improvements. I'd say, he keeps the wage the same but maybe tweaks one of the remaining 5 issues, perhaps IAM pension up another dime, dunno. 
 
As you can see, I don't expect much movement. IMO, we can't give in to those 6 things and if a release is granted, perhaps we even ask for more.  But, even if there is no determination on a release, we lose nothing.  Now isn't the time to panic, as ograc coined, "lock and load"
 
AH isn't going to give an extra week vacation, sAA pay of $23,  extra holidays, full sick pay, extra IAMPF and more scope without a fight.   And I know the hubs may feel different but I would rather us focus on scope first and educate the members about how extra or enhanced scope will help all the other things in joint talks.  I say this with the full realization that I don't have any mouths to feed at this point in my life and that our younger members may have families and be focused on wage alone but it's better to have a solid foundation first because without scope, half of us can lose our jobs overnight if gas prices go through the roof.
 
I've seen it twice in my career and I'm still in a station that is the result of that.
 
So, what is CLT thinking?  PHL?  PHX?  Class 2 stations?    Am I and other non hub members way off base in this thinking or are the hubs with this thinking this time???
Can't speak for the hubs; but IMO... working in a class 2 station on the brink of being outsourced I can appreciate the importance of strong scope language in a CBA. For myself; even if we were not to get scope language to protect members in outline stations, I am thankfully close enough to retirement I could pick up my chips and leave the table. My concern is for the many members in my station who have many years invested, have mouths to feed and are not old enough to have retirement as an option. Without scope... their bringing their seniority to a hub. I agree with your assesment Tim. Extra or enhanced scope will help with the leverage needed for improvements in transition talks. You protect the work first and foremost! If you don't... you sacrifice future leverage and any subsequent improvements to working conditions. For the future sake of the membership... I hope the DL leadership, the NC and the membership wake up to this reality. 
 
Tim Nelson said:
Glass was brought in the last time they met face to face and asked for the IAM demands and said he wants a deal done.  He usually comes in at the end. Unfortunately, nothing since then. 
 
IMO, maybe they are waiting for our 6 demands to go down to 3 demands and just get a token pay raise. leaving the release and leverage at the door?  It's important for the NC to stick to focusing on a release instead of going lower again on our offer.   We must gain some scope in any situation though.
6 demands! Nothing less! Anything less won't get ratified!
Lock and load!
 
mike33 said:
you mean it wasn't????????
You seem to be focusing on nothing more than hourly wage and retro. No mention of the importance of protecting work with better scope language. There are other issues that need improvement besides hourly wage. Focusing on hourly wage and retro is the bait on the hook. The same bait used at UA.
 
You can earn $50 an hour, if you have no scope who is going to earn it?
 
ograc said:
You seem to be focusing on nothing more than hourly wage and retro. No mention of the importance of protecting work with better scope language. There are other issues that need improvement besides hourly wage. Focusing on hourly wage and retro is the bait on the hook. The same bait used at UA.
Anyone who knows me knows i always talk of scope first. Thats a given. How it was interpreted that it wasn't first is beyond me. With no retro, then that means you have worked with no extra pay for 2 or more years. Unlike mtc who got some while in sec-6. 
 
Go back and reread some of my posts if you must.
 
mike33 said:
Anyone who knows me knows i always talk of scope first. Thats a given. How it was interpreted that it wasn't first is beyond me. With no retro, then that means you have worked with no extra pay for 2 or more years. Unlike mtc who got some while in sec-6. 
 
Go back and reread some of my posts if you must.
We need to keep the awareness of all the other issues at the forefront when posting. Especially scope. This is what the membership has charged the NC with. mike 33; I know you appreciate the importance of the whole package. That importance must be conveyed to the members in your station and throughout the system. Each of us on this forum must not let the members we know, work and communicte with, take the bait! Additionally, this applies to the DL 141 Leadership and the US NC. 
 
mike33 said:
How about 2% after all they owe us at least the amount over a couple years. 2% + the 2% retro
Retro is seperate and should be non negotiable.  I said 1% because it's for this meeting.  Next meeting should be 2%, 4% the meeting after that...  They'll get the picture.
 
Harry Callahan said:
Cargo, retirement is great. You should leave the crap behind & go for it. Harry
Yet you still come here to waddle in the middle of it all, go figure. ...
While I'm not planning on retirement just yet, I can say for certain that once I'm gone that I will not be reading and posting here anymore. ..
 
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