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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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ograc said:
Can't speak for the hubs; but IMO... working in a class 2 station on the brink of being outsourced I can appreciate the importance of strong scope language in a CBA. For myself; even if we were not to get scope language to protect members in outline stations, I am thankfully close enough to retirement I could pick up my chips and leave the table. My concern is for the many members in my station who have many years invested, have mouths to feed and are not old enough to have retirement as an option. Without scope... their bringing their seniority to a hub. I agree with your assesment Tim. Extra or enhanced scope will help with the leverage needed for improvements in transition talks. You protect the work first and foremost! If you don't... you sacrifice future leverage and any subsequent improvements to working conditions. For the future sake of the membership... I hope the DL leadership, the NC and the membership wake up to this reality.
While I can understand your passion about scope and how important it is to those in a Class 2 station, I can't forget how very few if any gave a rat's arse about it in the past. Many good hard working dedicated employees were tossed to the curb like trash with the blessing of the membership in the Class 1 stations. They all had families and mouths to feed as well. Sure there were a lot of senior guys, but many weren't close enough to retirement to use that option. To pour even more salt on the wounded, the union that was "supposed" to represent them dreamed up the infamous 60 day furlough rule. I'm still waiting for an explanation for that gem.
 
Wings:
The only reason I do is because of some sick reason I still care about my friends who are still working & wish everyone the best. But maybe I should just "ride into the sunset"
 
Harry
 
Edit to add:
I will be taking a break (if not done) will all labor threads....good luck
 
To each their own I suppose. I have gone thru so much crap over the years, that I can't wait for the day where this industry is no longer hanging over my head. The day that it no longer plays a role in my income, is the day I detach myself from it.
 
I dont thing that will ever be the case.  The Boys in Class I cites will NEVER care about anyone but themselves.  The almighty Dollar is all that matters.   Im done...had enough of the BS and moving on.  Ed
 
wings396 said:
While I can understand your passion about scope and how important it is to those in a Class 2 station, I can't forget how very few if any gave a rat's arse about it in the past. Many good hard working dedicated employees were tossed to the curb like trash with the blessing of the membership in the Class 1 stations. They all had families and mouths to feed as well. Sure there were a lot of senior guys, but many weren't close enough to retirement to use that option. To pour even more salt on the wounded, the union that was "supposed" to represent them dreamed up the infamous 60 day furlough rule. I'm still waiting for an explanation for that gem.
wings,
The company has played the membership in the past. Class 1 vs. Class 2 stations. They got what they wanted. For a few dollars more they were given the blessing to eliminate countless jobs through outsourcing. Any hourly wage increases were "cost neutral" with the countless jobs eliminated. Scope is not just an important issue in class 2 stations Brother. Class 1 stations will begin to feel the effect as well. Senior agents bumping into class 1 stations. The company going after catering and cargo jobs (where they still exist) in class 1 stations will be next. Again; protecting the work with SCOPE language should be a major issue to both Class 1 and 2 stations alike. I witnessed the demise of PIT. Many members there thought their jobs were untouchable too. Those who do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
 
ograc said:
wings,
The company has played the membership in the past. Class 1 vs. Class 2 stations. They got what they wanted. For a few dollars more they were given the blessing to eliminate countless jobs through outsourcing. Any hourly wage increases were "cost neutral" with the countless jobs eliminated. Scope is not just an important issue in class 2 stations Brother. Class 1 stations will begin to feel the effect as well. Senior agents bumping into class 1 stations. The company going after catering and cargo jobs (where they still exist) in class 1 stations will be next. Again; protecting the work with SCOPE language should be a major issue to both Class 1 and 2 stations alike. I witnessed the demise of PIT. Many members there thought their jobs were untouchable too. Those who do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
The union leadership has played the membership in the past Class 1 vs Class 2 as well.  Canale is no longer with us because of his leadership in making sure that class 2 pay, 60 day rule, etc would be endorsed.
 
Harry Callahan said:
Wings:
The only reason I do is because of some sick reason I still care about my friends who are still working & wish everyone the best. But maybe I should just "ride into the sunset"
 
Harry
 
Edit to add:
I will be taking a break (if not done) will all labor threads....good luck
Harry, here is how I look at it...
 
I spent decades as an advocate for procuring a bargaining unit. Now, remember this was under the umbrella of PI, one of the toughest environments in history to attempt this. I was harassed by management on several occasions for my views.
 
Now -- I’ll be damned if I’m going to sit on the sidelines... Why you ask? Because the Job is NOT finished! Don’t let one guy’s rude comment run you away from this forum... you earned the right to be here... just as I did!
 
roabilly said:
Harry, here is how I look at it...
 
I spent decades as an advocate for procuring a bargaining unit. Now, remember this was under the umbrella of PI, one of the toughest environments in history to attempt this. I was harassed by management on several occasions for my views.
 
Now -- I’ll be damned if I’m going to sit on the sidelines... Why you ask? Because the Job is NOT finished! Don’t let one guy’s rude comment run you away from this forum... you earned the right to be here... just as I did!
I agree with Roabilly. Too often we chose to ignore or dismiss the voices of those that came before us. The one's who we need to hear to learn from. I think mostly it's a jealousy on our part because we don't feel they have to live with what we have to live with anymore. Those members spent a huge majority of their lives dedicated to issues involving our craft and EARNED the right to have their opinions heard and respected. I for one welcome them and hope I can learn from the things they teach me.

As for me I am not an IAM member and do not have a vote on what your next move is but your vote now absolutely does concern and affect my future. So I will make my opinions known and heard no matter who cares or prefers I do or don't.
 
ROA:
Thanks for your kind comment & I agree. Like you said we've earned the right to hang around because I know you & me both still care about our brothers & sisters. Maybe I just won't follow quite as close because quite frankly you & most of the others know far more about this than I do.
 
Harry
 
Harry Callahan said:
ROA:
Thanks for your kind comment & I agree. Like you said we've earned the right to hang around because I know you & me both still care about our brothers & sisters. Maybe I just won't follow quite as close because quite frankly you & most of the others know far more about this than I do.
 
Harry
 
 
I hear ya Harry...
 
The reason we come here is to educate, and dismiss the political rhetoric from reality. If nothing else, you should come here to LEARN!
At least that way, you will know more than you did the day before. Actually, what is is transpiring today is making Airline Labor history! Many of the circumstances such as BK to record profits, and mega-mergers with union alliances has NEVER happened before!
 
So we will ALL learn together...
 
roabilly said:
 
 
I hear ya Harry...
 
The reason we come here is to educate, and dismiss the political rhetoric from reality. If nothing else, you should come here to LEARN!
At least that way, you will know more than you did the day before. Actually, what is is transpiring today is making Airline Labor history! Many of the circumstances such as BK to record profits, and mega-mergers with union alliances has NEVER happened before!
 
So we will ALL learn together...
Uncharted waters to be sure ROA. Good information must be seperated from bad or misleading information. Speculation must be seen for what it is; and not necessarily viewed as factual. There is only one certainty going forward. We must go forward as a united and solidified group. Second guessing, personal attacks, political posturing and empty promises based on speculation are divisive by nature and certainly counter productive to solidarity and unification of the US Fleet Service Bargaining Unit. Most of us come here to learn and seek enlightenment concerning our futures. Many, through years of experience, have a wealth of valuable insight and information to share. Yourself and Harry included. Again, the goal, as I see it, is to share opinions and information on this forum that build a more solidified and united group. Battle lines are being drawn. It's time for some to set aside the second guessing, personal attacks, political posturing and empty promises. It's time to focus on what we have come here for! Time to focus on what we have charged our NC to fight for! Concessionary contracts and everything must be "cost neutral" negotiations are a thing of the past when the combined carrier is making billions in profits. This is no longer negotiations under the protection of bankruptcy! ROA; You're input is always respected and welcome in my book.  
 
ograc said:
Uncharted waters to be sure ROA. Good information must be seperated from bad or misleading information. Speculation must be seen for what it is; and not necessarily viewed as factual. There is only one certainty going forward. We must go forward as a united and solidified group. Second guessing, personal attacks, political posturing and empty promises based on speculation are divisive by nature and certainly counter productive to solidarity and unification of the US Fleet Service Bargaining Unit. Most of us come here to learn and seek enlightenment concerning our futures. Many, through years of experience, have a wealth of valuable insight and information to share. Yourself and Harry included. Again, the goal, as I see it, is to share opinions and information on this forum that build a more solidified and united group. Battle lines are being drawn. It's time for some to set aside the second guessing, personal attacks, political posturing and empty promises. It's time to focus on what we have come here for! Time to focus on what we have charged our NC to fight for! Concessionary contracts and everything must be "cost neutral" negotiations are a thing of the past when the combined carrier is making billions in profits. This is no longer negotiations under the protection of bankruptcy! ROA; You're input is always respected and welcome in my book.
Amen to that.
This is big, with mega mergers and rising profits, while they want us to take BK wages and concessionary contracts. Hopefully you guys will get it right.
 
ograc said:
Uncharted waters to be sure ROA. Good information must be seperated from bad or misleading information. Speculation must be seen for what it is; and not necessarily viewed as factual. There is only one certainty going forward. We must go forward as a united and solidified group. Second guessing, personal attacks, political posturing and empty promises based on speculation are divisive by nature and certainly counter productive to solidarity and unification of the US Fleet Service Bargaining Unit. Most of us come here to learn and seek enlightenment concerning our futures. Many, through years of experience, have a wealth of valuable insight and information to share. Yourself and Harry included. Again, the goal, as I see it, is to share opinions and information on this forum that build a more solidified and united group. Battle lines are being drawn. It's time for some to set aside the second guessing, personal attacks, political posturing and empty promises. It's time to focus on what we have come here for! Time to focus on what we have charged our NC to fight for! Concessionary contracts and everything must be "cost neutral" negotiations are a thing of the past when the combined carrier is making billions in profits. This is no longer negotiations under the protection of bankruptcy! ROA; You're input is always respected and welcome in my book.  
Cargo,
 
You are correct sir! The new AA is FAR from bankrupt, and there is every reason to believe they may very well end up as the most profitable Airline in the world! As a matter of fact, total revenue, which is expected to reach $40.97 billion this year, is expected to rise annually and hit $47.83 billion in 2017! (Wall Street Journal)
 
Interestingly, it appears labor cost projections have already been factored in, as labor expenses, which AMR reduced significantly in its bankruptcy case, are expected to be $7.7 billion this year and rise to $9.6 billion by 2017. (Wall Street Journal) So, it appears that around 2 billion has been earmarked for increases to employee compensation over the next three years.
 
There is a good reason the N/C is adamant about concluding Section 6 PRIOR to a JCBA. The reason is simple... Fleet and MX would remain at BK compensation levels for several more years... years that that would never be regained!
 
The opportunity to salvage some of the sacrifices we made to bring the company to this point would be squandered FOREVER in times of record revenues! Thus, we are now at the brink of...
 
LOCK –N- LOAD!!
 
Here is a blast from the past D-Con in CLT:
 
1780775_10201687762661219_2099240949_n.jpg
 
700UW said:
Here is a blast from the past D-Con in CLT:
 
1780775_10201687762661219_2099240949_n.jpg
I think some of those guys are still working on D con.  Heck I think I've even seen the same cart and tug still there. 1986??
 
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