2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

I do have one quest  and I hope it does not inflame folks but  here goes
 
the way the mou is written  it makes it out that the TWU is the sole union     ive read the mou  but what about the IAM   or do they go in together to file scs?
 
it just seems confusing to me    apologies for any inflicting damages

Regarding single carrier filings, all it takes is one union filing it to trigger the investigation. AH knew that so it didnt matter about the iam.
That said, the ibt raids got the aflcio's trumka to bring the two unions together in unity and that led to a very fair seniority integration for most.

But 700 is absolutely wrong that the association agreement will trump the mou.
the association is a good thing but it isnt even legally recognized, and wont be until after a vote, unless it falls apart.

One thing we havent considered in this discussion is the sediment from inside the twu that may turn south on this association if the iam keeps bull sh#&ing its members into believing the twu will intentionally break its mou and stall joint talks.

I can assure you that 9,000 twu members support the iam but wont sit idle singing kumbuya over any stalled talks.

Again, i think its a fairy tale built to support the iam141 political base (see same thing at united) but i cant refute the fairy tale. But the fairy tale theme is the uttetly ridiculous notion that the twu will set itself up for political and financial destruction.

The reason why i personally believe our iam leaders are once again stroking members is because of political elections once again.The reality they arent telling u is the fact that we are on a timetable that is counting down. If there is no release then they will be left with their pants down as AH eats them for lunch. Why? Because the iam has not covered our bases with other items that they still have opportunity to cover.

If im an agc elect in june, I CAN ASSURE YOU, the game plan wont be to keep playing games but to do the things necessary to conclude a fair agreement in time prior to joint talks.

 

[P. REZ]

Really? Who at AA had seniority "Added"? I'm still waiting for my "Added" seniority 14 years after the TWA asset acquisition...
 
Unless you're talking about the Kasher arbitration decision, and if that's the case you're wildly off base.

JFK Fleet Service,
 
TWU in general has had a history of taking seniority away from employees(TWA) or adding seniority to employees(LUV) in the Airtran merger. I am not trying to say anything bad about the TWU, just stating some things we didn't want to see in this merger. McCaskill/Bond would not have been the savior if a dispute arised.  
 
P. Rez  

 

[AANOTOK]

 
If someone doesn't sort through, and reconcile the false information in all of these cleverly spun assertions, the layperson would take them at face value...

And that kind of crap comes from every union, union wanna be, Association, Association wanna be, union rep, union wanna be rep etc...etc...etc...Look no further than this forum!

 

[ograc]

That's exactly why I come into this forum and put-up with being called a moron, drunk, lazy, Kool-aid drinker etc.
 
If someone doesn't sort through, and reconcile the false information in all of these cleverly spun assertions, the layperson would take them at face value...

The hollow promises,assertions and misinformation put forth by opposition candidates. Who speaks the truth? The knowledgable members with no skin in the game; the incumbent candidates or the candidates running in opposition?  How is the average member able to seperate the truth from misleading speculation? It must be District Officer Election Time! Unfortunately, at a time where it is critical to rally the members on a united front, we are handicapped by this continual political division. In the meantime... I say we continue to support the DL 141 team that TN supported and endorsed and our NC Committee. From what I have been told... I believe they have the best interests of the membership in mind regarding our Section 6 negotiations. With that being said... if it turns out we are being mislead and sold out, as such with the UA agreement, the tide will quickly change come June 2014. The jury is still out. 

 

[charlie Brown]

Regarding single carrier filings, all it takes is one union filing it to trigger the investigation. AH knew that so it didnt matter about the iam.
That said, the ibt raids got the aflcio's trumka to bring the two unions together in unity and that led to a very fair seniority integration for most.
But 700 is absolutely wrong that the association agreement will trump the mou.
the association is a good thing but it isnt even legally recognized, and wont be until after a vote, unless it falls apart.
One thing we havent considered in this discussion is the sediment from inside the twu that may turn south on this association if the iam keeps bull sh#&ing its members into believing the twu will intentionally break its mou and stall joint talks.
I can assure you that 9,000 twu members support the iam but wont sit idle singing kumbuya over any stalled talks.
Again, i think its a fairy tale built to support the iam141 political base (see same thing at united) but i cant refute the fairy tale. But the fairy tale theme is the uttetly ridiculous notion that the twu will set itself up for political and financial destruction.
The reason why i personally believe our iam leaders are once again stroking members is because of political elections once again.The reality they arent telling u is the fact that we are on a timetable that is counting down. If there is no release then they will be left with their pants down as AH eats them for lunch. Why? Because the iam has not covered our bases with other items that they still have opportunity to cover.
If im an agc elect in june, I CAN ASSURE YOU, the game plan wont be to keep playing games but to do the things necessary to conclude a fair agreement in time prior to joint talks.

And I can assure everyone that nothing in negotiations or going on in negotiations is happening or not happening for any political reasons. It pisses me off that anyone would say that!! We have worked hard for the members for 2 1/2 years now. Doing what the members have stated they need and want. The fact that we are still here and elections are coming up in June, believe me, was not what the Nc wanted. I like being home too much with my family to just keep going out of town for 2 1/2 years now for nothing. And I have also stated in previous post that Tim's concern about the coalition has been greatly discussed along time ago. All we can do is relay information we have been told from the legal team. We aren't trying to mislead anyone. If we end up being wrong, then it's the legal guys that are wrong. What are we suppose to do? We are suppose to disagree with what legal says and tell them they are wrong? They are suppose to be the ones that make the money to make these decisions. If they end up being wrong, I'm sure there will be several of us on the NC pissed off due to what we have been told. But as for now, we have to go with what they say.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The hollow promises,assertions and misinformation put forth by opposition candidates. Who speaks the truth? The knowledgable members with no skin in the game; the incumbent candidates or the candidates running in opposition?  How is the average member able to seperate the truth from misleading speculation? It must be District Officer Election Time! Unfortunately, at a time where it is critical to rally the members on a united front, we are handicapped by this continual political division. In the meantime... I say we continue to support the DL 141 team that TN supported and endorsed and our NC Committee. From what I have been told... I believe they have the best interests of the membership in mind regarding our Section 6 negotiations. With that being said... if it turns out we are being mislead and sold out, as such with the UA agreement, the tide will quickly change come June 2014. The jury is still out. 

What misinformation are you referring to? At any rate, your post was great.  Read what you said and then tell me why you blamed the membership at United for voting for the contract.  Do you remember me telling you  that I disagree with you that the membership is to blame?  Fact is, that the NC and IAM141 blew so much smoke up everyone's ass that it became very hard for the members to separate truth.   That's just what you said, isn't it? 
Yea, I was the bad guy who ended up being right. The guy that Local Chairpersons and AGC's loved to dog because they wanted to believe a lie and keep their place in line,  but my words proved true.  Now, I have to be the bad guy over here at US AIRWAYS, holding the NC accountable, calling out their complete bull sh*t again, and advising those that will listen that there IS A TIMETABLE and that the TWU or its agent does have to file or risk financial pain.   Go ahead and support them, in doing so, you will be supporting the same leaders who lied and cheated and sold out United.  Believe all their bull sh*t that the application won't be filed timely.  Believe all their bull Sh*t that there isn't a timetable where fleet service can get screwed so bad that it gets $0 instead of a fair agreement due to them playing politics and being outright lazy by not covering their bases with very big items left undone.  It's all Bull S.  Everything they have said is a lie regarding this process.  They even twist a signed document, the MOU, and want you to think that the TWU is going to put its financial neck on the line, along with all of its politics going down the tube when their members get pissed off.  It isn't going to happen. PERIOD.  But, there is a timetable and if these guys want to continue playing politics and drag this thing out without covering their bases then fleet service is going to be hung out to dry. And I wont' blame you, or any member who misplaced your trust in them.  Fact is, their Bull S is pretty damn good.
 
 I know you are a solid union guy but I've done nothing but tell the truth and the United contract is witness to what they are trying to sell you. Don't believe their s.  If you can't divide the truth then how can you blame the average member?  That's why I don't blame the membership.  Do you see now, why the United membership can't be blamed?   Blame the leadership, that's where the blame belongs. How does the average union member know the processes of scs and the meaning of a MOU and the very narrow timetable we have to get a fair agreement?  The leadership knows that the membership is necessarily ignorant on these things so it exploits the members to pass an agenda that works against the membership.
 
At any rate, they have nothing to show so don't think they will reveal their Bull S before June.  The only way to change this mess is to change these guys out like dirty laundry.  No, I never ever endorsed half of them so you are wrong about that.  Yes, I endorsed some of them 5 years ago but endorsed NONE of them 2 years ago.  How does the saying go, "Fool me once...."  
 
I don't even have to be on this site if I'm thinking politically.  The membership pushed the slate I'm on really hard in February and although a lot of work remains, we feel the membership will deliver change strongly. I'm on this site because I hate Bull S.  As far as politically, I'm taking a hit every time I slap the hell out of our members with truth.  The ones getting the votes and points on here are those who are kissing with lies. The truth offends folks and they can't handle it so they get naturally pissed off at me.  But I'd rather slap them with the truth than kiss them with a lie. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

And I can assure everyone that nothing in negotiations or going on in negotiations is happening or not happening for any political reasons. It pisses me off that anyone would say that!! We have worked hard for the members for 2 1/2 years now. Doing what the members have stated they need and want. The fact that we are still here and elections are coming up in June, believe me, was not what the Nc wanted. I like being home too much with my family to just keep going out of town for 2 1/2 years now for nothing. And I have also stated in previous post that Tim's concern about the coalition has been greatly discussed along time ago. All we can do is relay information we have been told from the legal team. We aren't trying to mislead anyone. If we end up being wrong, then it's the legal guys that are wrong. What are we suppose to do? We are suppose to disagree with what legal says and tell them they are wrong? They are suppose to be the ones that make the money to make these decisions. If they end up being wrong, I'm sure there will be several of us on the NC pissed off due to what we have been told. But as for now, we have to go with what they say.

Which legal team did you listen to at United?   Just curious.
 
Please, stop this insanity and just be honest with the members that the TWU or its agent has to file the application or it will breach the agreement.  Do you have any idea on the timetable you will put this group up against if you don't get a release?  Do you even know of the few things Delaney hasn't done that bring all the leverage up off the bench? 

 

[charlie Brown]

Which legal team did you listen to at United?   Just curious.
 
Please, stop this insanity and just be honest with the members that the TWU or its agent has to file the application or it will breach the agreement.  Do you have any idea on the timetable you will put this group up against if you don't get a release?  Do you even know of the few things Delaney hasn't done that bring all the leverage up off the bench? 
 
I don't think your sob story and playing the violin about being away from home will play to the ears of the United folks too well.  BTW, it's a privilege to represent the members and it isn't heavy.  I'm glad you are pissed off.  Fact is that you should be more pissed off at what you endorsed at United and it's happening again on your dime at US AIRWAYS. Renting out your brain to Delaney is your first mistake.  It shouldn't even be an option.  The thing I don't know is if you do it on purpose or if you really don't have a clue.  But wrong you are again



I'm wrong?? I guess you should know since your a professional at it.
And who said it was " heavy " to represent the membership? You have issues Tim.
You act like your here for the membership, while the whole time thinking you can deceive them with what your really doing. Your the only one on here playing politics, I try to inform the members.
You on the other hand act like you want to inform them, but not really, or you would tell them the whole truth. I was merely setting the record straight about the negotiating team and our work, is NOT, or will it ever be, played by politics. We have put to much time into it for that.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Which legal team did you listen to at United?   Just curious.
 
Please, stop this insanity and just be honest with the members that the TWU or its agent has to file the application or it will breach the agreement.  Do you have any idea on the timetable you will put this group up against if you don't get a release?  Do you even know of the few things Delaney hasn't done that bring all the leverage up off the bench? 
 
I don't think your sob story and playing the violin about being away from home will play to the ears of the United folks too well.  BTW, it's a privilege to represent the members and it isn't heavy.  I'm glad you are pissed off.  Fact is that you should be more pissed off at what you endorsed at United and it's happening again on your dime at US AIRWAYS. Renting out your brain to Delaney is your first mistake.  It shouldn't even be an option.  The thing I don't know is if you do it on purpose or if you really don't have a clue.  But wrong you are again



I'm wrong?? I guess you should know since your a professional at it.
And who said it was " heavy " to represent the membership? You have issues Tim.
You act like your here for the membership, while the whole time thinking you can deceive them with what your really doing. Your the only one on here playing politics, I try to inform the members.
You on the other hand act like you want to inform them, but not really, or you would tell them the whole truth. I was merely setting the record straight about the negotiating team and our work, is NOT, or will it ever be, played by politics. We have put to much time into it for that.

Let's get one thing straight. If I wanted to be political, I'd be itching the members ears like you do.  Fact is, I'm losing political points being on here spelling out your BS.  I have to come on here and be the bad guy telling the members that you guys are stroking them to believe your BS about how the TWU won't be in breach of contract and will put its own membership and financial situation at risk for doing so. A Fairy tale indeed but I can't stop you from your BS. You got away with it at United. 
 
Carry on

 

[700UW]

Its not contract law, its not a breach of contract, its handled as a minor dispute and remanded to arbitration.
 
Keep spinning.

 

[mike33]

  I see the TWU in breach if they don't file SCS in six months of the merger. Minor, Major, left, right, upside down, whatever. It would be a breach of the MOU. Nobody can officially say what will happen if the company pushes it. The only thing i know is that it's a problem that is not going to go away. Nobody is right till after a court decision is rendered. The biggest problem is , is that its real and it's going to happen or there may be consequences . 
  The thing that irks me the most is language in the UA contract that allows a company to vendor your job if you can't come to a lower cost agreement with the company. How does that happen? In as much as we tell the UA employees that they had a chance to change the industry for once, they end up with that kind of language. We are all to blame for that period.

 

[700UW]

It wont go to court, any violation of the MOU goes to arbitration, read Paragraph 9 or read Roabilly's post he put a picture of it on there.
 
And its not a breach of contract or mou, its a violation which gets sent to arbitration, this is labor law, not contract law.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Its not contract law, its not a breach of contract, its handled as a minor dispute and remanded to arbitration.
 
Keep spinning.

Keep telling yourself that it isn't a breach. Either you are dumb or you are playing some semantic game. Carry on!

 

[Tim Nelson]

  I see the TWU in breach if they don't file SCS in six months of the merger. Minor, Major, left, right, upside down, whatever. It would be a breach of the MOU. Nobody can officially say what will happen if the company pushes it. The only thing i know is that it's a problem that is not going to go away. Nobody is right till after a court decision is rendered. The biggest problem is , is that its real and it's going to happen or there may be consequences . 
  The thing that irks me the most is language in the UA contract that allows a company to vendor your job if you can't come to a lower cost agreement with the company. How does that happen? In as much as we tell the UA employees that they had a chance to change the industry for once, they end up with that kind of language. We are all to blame for that period.

I've said what I said about all of this and it's time for me to step back from this topic. People are making me the enemy for calling these guys out for the same BS they started here that they ended up with over at United.  Same techniques of BS, same all.  At this point, I'm pissing off the audience who wants to believe the bull s and may very well end up hoodwinked just like at United and not realize what happened until after they get hosed. Oh it's coming.  If it wasn't then there wouldn't be any BS.  For some reason, the Bull S is getting thicker now.  As for United, I simply say that it is really tough to blame the members.  There was so much BS that it was honestly really hard for them to sniff through it.  Delaney finally blasted me on the official IAM webpage telling the members not to listen to me regarding the full time commitment and the monumental contract because I didn't have a law degree. 
 
In truncated fashion, if the release doesn't come, there are two critical things that the leadership failed to do that needed to be done and isn't.  AH knows this, I know this, and the NC knows this.  The omission of those two actions are quite telling to AH.  The timetable is real but either because of politics or because the NC has no knowledge on what it is doing [not kidding, same as UA NC], our members may get hosed on all of this and either get $0 or a real sh*tty TA.  Time will show everyone because this is a negotiating mess if there is no release.  And if their fairy tale proves accurate that the TWU will breach,  that will be a disaster with nothing gained but pissed off TWU members and a possible implosion of the association and our seniority agreement [See Pilots].  9.000 TWU members are being told something different and it isn't that the TWU is going to put its life on the line for an indefinite time.  Not going to happen but if it does, then the TWU will suffer political and financial pain. 
 
As far as the United contract and that clause you talked about, Delaney says that is part of their protections, i.e., the union has the protections to place bids and undercut Swissport to keep the work.  15 more stations were announced to close two days ago, and Delaney has the option of saving the work by outbidding swissport. This is a result of agreeing with management to walk away from the table with only 7 stations under scope and then have an open ended contract that renegotiates wages and benefits for the 85 other stations.  There is a 3 wave of 45 stations to be completed by October.  This first list of 15 stations is just the first wave getting blown up. 

 

[rockit2]

This forum just keeps getting better and better, all you armchair quarterbacks just keep pumping out the crap.I've got one question........why are you guy's so afraid of TN?
 
Most of you have nothing in this game. I personally know 3/4 of the AGC'S and have worked with them. Personally , they have failed. Not to mention several of them wouldn't even sign a union card when the organizing campaigns were started. Anyone on this forum worried about getting a decent contract? Doesn't sound like it. The district need to stop their let's get along with the company program. The hubs should be sending a message right now, CB why isn't CLT taking the lead?