2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[NYer]

A strike vote ahead of time helps build leverage. The iam is saying they are prepared to strike without a strike vote. I know you are naive on this but unions will often have strike votes as a sign of solidarity and as a sign to management that the union has the support of its members. Management needs to see this as well but more importantly the technique is used to bring about even more solidarity.

The iam is free to recommend an acceptance or rejection of any contract. It isnt the twu and it doesnt sign full blown agreements without democratic votes.

What i have said contrast the current leadership. Engage the membership.

 
We thought the same things. Unfortunately, the airline, Wall Street and journalists know differently and have seen this process before. As a matter of fact, the Dallas News even has an article on it today...
 
There’s no question that prolonged labor talks are exasperating for the employees, and the nature of airline labor negotiations is that they drag on and on with no real deadline. Many would cite that as a primary weakness in the Railway Labor Act, which governs labor relations in both the rail and airline industries.
 
We would get quite excited if we thought an IAM strike at US Airways was likely in the near future. But that’s not our evaluation of the situation:
 
1. The IAM’s request to be released from mediation with US Airways management is not new.
 
IAM international president R. Thomas Buffenbarger sent a letter March 20, 2013, to NMB chairman Harry Hoglander asking for a release for US Airways’ mechanics. On June 11, 2013, Buffenbarger sent a similar letter to Hoglander asking for a release for US Airways’ fleet service clerks.
 
2. The National Mediation Board has proven itself very reluctant in recent history to release airlines and  unions from mediation and allow strikes.
 
The last passenger airline strike allowed was by Spirit Airlines pilots in 2010. Before that, it was Northwest Airlines mechanics in 2005.
 
3. We don’t think the NMB ever says no to a request for a release from mediation, at least not publicly. It just doesn’t say yes.
 
4. We’re used to airline unions demanding to be released from mediation so they could go on strike, and the NMB not granting their request.
 
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents American’s flight attendants, asked for a release in March 2010. Didn’t happen. The Transport Workers Union at American asked for a release in March 2010. Didn’t happen. In the middle of the American bankruptcy case, the Allied Pilots Association asked the NMB to proffer binding arbitration, which the pilots said they would accept. Didn’t happen.
 
...And Barron's had this to say today....
 
"We believe the statements by the IAM are mostly posturing to attempt to gain control of the combined labor group when American and US Airways are combined…We believe any strike is highly unlikely in the near term, and we would continue to remain a buyer of the shares."

 

[NYer]

That is quite apparent.
 
Wonder why a TWU person is on the US Fleet thread spreading misinformation.

 
Does that mean the 700UW on the AA pages is not yourself?
 

The NMB cannot tell the IAM not to give a negative recommendation, where are you coming up with this BS?
 
We have voted down two CBAs in the past while in a 30 day cooling off period with giving a NO vote recommendation.
 
You are truly amazing with coming up with BS.

 
I believe you said that was in the 1990's, correct?
 
If you want to base your opinion or your point of view on negotiations that took place over two decades ago and in a completely different era and industry, then go ahead.
 
The information I share comes from the experience of going through this process in 2010 and 2011, while under the current political and economics conditions.
 
Those that read this can determine which experience better fits the current situation.

 

[AANOTOK]

...And Barron's had this to say today....
 
"We believe the statements by the IAM are mostly posturing to attempt to gain control of the combined labor group when American and US Airways are combined…We believe any strike is highly unlikely in the near term, and we would continue to remain a buyer of the shares."

Yet if you follow the stock, it has been dropping over the last three or four sessions...I guess some folks are not taking Barron's advice.

 

[NYer]

Yet if you follow the stock, it has been dropping over the last three or four sessions...I guess some folks are not taking Barron's advice.

 
That's related to the Russian situation. Most of the airline stocks have been falling.
 
"Airline earnings for 2014 will be $1 billion or 5 percent lower than previously predicted as political tensions drive up oil prices and growth in emerging markets slows, the International Air Transport Association said." --Bloomberg

 

[Tim Nelson]

We thought the same things. Unfortunately, the airline, Wall Street and journalists know differently and have seen this process before. As a matter of fact, the Dallas News even has an article on it today...
 
There’s no question that prolonged labor talks are exasperating for the employees, and the nature of airline labor negotiations is that they drag on and on with no real deadline. Many would cite that as a primary weakness in the Railway Labor Act, which governs labor relations in both the rail and airline industries.
 
We would get quite excited if we thought an IAM strike at US Airways was likely in the near future. But that’s not our evaluation of the situation:
 
1. The IAM’s request to be released from mediation with US Airways management is not new.
 
IAM international president R. Thomas Buffenbarger sent a letter March 20, 2013, to NMB chairman Harry Hoglander asking for a release for US Airways’ mechanics. On June 11, 2013, Buffenbarger sent a similar letter to Hoglander asking for a release for US Airways’ fleet service clerks.
 
2. The National Mediation Board has proven itself very reluctant in recent history to release airlines and  unions from mediation and allow strikes.
 
The last passenger airline strike allowed was by Spirit Airlines pilots in 2010. Before that, it was Northwest Airlines mechanics in 2005.
 
3. We don’t think the NMB ever says no to a request for a release from mediation, at least not publicly. It just doesn’t say yes.
 
4. We’re used to airline unions demanding to be released from mediation so they could go on strike, and the NMB not granting their request.
 
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents American’s flight attendants, asked for a release in March 2010. Didn’t happen. The Transport Workers Union at American asked for a release in March 2010. Didn’t happen. In the middle of the American bankruptcy case, the Allied Pilots Association asked the NMB to proffer binding arbitration, which the pilots said they would accept. Didn’t happen.
 
...And Barron's had this to say today....
 
"We believe the statements by the IAM are mostly posturing to attempt to gain control of the combined labor group when American and US Airways are combined…We believe any strike is highly unlikely in the near term, and we would continue to remain a buyer of the shares."

not sure what any of this has to do with my post that you quoted but ive agreed with you and the above articles that a release may not happen for a while. What should happen is that the iam should get its strike vote in the bag now. Engage the membership and it is entirely permissible to mock the company by bringing back a ta for rejection. I wouldnt think management really would want a contract that has a 1% increase to be voted upon. Management owes our members for july 2013 and july of 2014, regardless of any future wages, plus vacation, sick time, etc.

 

[700UW]

 
We thought the same things. Unfortunately, the airline, Wall Street and journalists know differently and have seen this process before. As a matter of fact, the Dallas News even has an article on it today...
 
There’s no question that prolonged labor talks are exasperating for the employees, and the nature of airline labor negotiations is that they drag on and on with no real deadline. Many would cite that as a primary weakness in the Railway Labor Act, which governs labor relations in both the rail and airline industries.
 
We would get quite excited if we thought an IAM strike at US Airways was likely in the near future. But that’s not our evaluation of the situation:
 
1. The IAM’s request to be released from mediation with US Airways management is not new.
 
IAM international president R. Thomas Buffenbarger sent a letter March 20, 2013, to NMB chairman Harry Hoglander asking for a release for US Airways’ mechanics. On June 11, 2013, Buffenbarger sent a similar letter to Hoglander asking for a release for US Airways’ fleet service clerks.
 
2. The National Mediation Board has proven itself very reluctant in recent history to release airlines and  unions from mediation and allow strikes.
 
The last passenger airline strike allowed was by Spirit Airlines pilots in 2010. Before that, it was Northwest Airlines mechanics in 2005.
 
3. We don’t think the NMB ever says no to a request for a release from mediation, at least not publicly. It just doesn’t say yes.
 
4. We’re used to airline unions demanding to be released from mediation so they could go on strike, and the NMB not granting their request.
 
The Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents American’s flight attendants, asked for a release in March 2010. Didn’t happen. The Transport Workers Union at American asked for a release in March 2010. Didn’t happen. In the middle of the American bankruptcy case, the Allied Pilots Association asked the NMB to proffer binding arbitration, which the pilots said they would accept. Didn’t happen.
 
...And Barron's had this to say today....
 
"We believe the statements by the IAM are mostly posturing to attempt to gain control of the combined labor group when American and US Airways are combined…We believe any strike is highly unlikely in the near term, and we would continue to remain a buyer of the shares."

And that is a reporter and financial analyst's opinion, not the union, not the NMB and no one that was in negotiations.

 

[Tim Nelson]

And that is a reporter and financial analyst's opinion, not the union, not the NMB and no one that was in negotiations.

the thing he doesnt realize is that the reality of the situation has change. Back in 2010 amr was on the verge of bankruptcy in a very fragile industry that was just climbing out of record losses and bankruptcies. Now, airlines are in the best and most profitable economic industry condition since the wright brothers. I do agree with him that the nmb will ice us another couple months at least but there remains a chance that the nmb will issue a release then figure out if they peb this thing or not.

In the meantime, displaying AH 1% offer should be made visible and displayed in the streets and encourage a strike vote right now. No reason to wait.

 

[Tim Nelson]

And that is a reporter and financial analyst's opinion, not the union, not the NMB and no one that was in negotiations.

that reporter for the dallas paper is with management.

 

[ograc]

not sure what any of this has to do with my post that you quoted but ive agreed with you and the above articles that a release may not happen for a while. What should happen is that the iam should get its strike vote in the bag now. Engage the membership and it is entirely permissible to mock the company by bringing back a ta for rejection. I wouldnt think management really would want a contract that has a 1% increase to be voted upon. Management owes our members for july 2013 and july of 2014, regardless of any future wages, plus vacation, sick time, etc.

Tim. I don't know that brining back the current offer by the company and a subsequent strike vote is necessary at this time. Based on the 1%, and the past posture of the company in negotiations the past two years, I believe the membership is feeling quite disrespected, stoked and ready to seek self help. How could you feel any other way? I believe the members are locked, loaded and awaiting marching orders. Just where you need them to be. Wall street's reaction is understandably slow based on past history. With continual press releases by the union and an increase in informational picketing by the union; even the threat of a strike will begin to have an influence on the traveling public's booking travel for the upcoming summer months. Unlike Wall Street, they are not aware of the history of posturing in contract negotiations. They will simply book on another airline to avoid any potential disruptions in their itinerary. 

 

[roabilly]

Tim. I don't know that brining back the current offer by the company and a subsequent strike vote is necessary at this time. Based on the 1%, and the past posture of the company in negotiations the past two years, I believe the membership is feeling quite disrespected, stoked and ready to seek self help. How could you feel any other way? I believe the members are locked, loaded and awaiting marching orders. Just where you need them to be. Wall street's reaction is understandably slow based on past history. With continual press releases by the union and an increase in informational picketing by the union; even the threat of a strike will begin to have an influence on the traveling public's booking travel for the upcoming summer months. Unlike Wall Street, they are not aware of the history of posturing in contract negotiations. They will simply book on another airline to avoid any potential disruptions in their itinerary. 

 
             ^^^ THIS!  ^^^
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[WeAAsles]

the thing he doesnt realize is that the reality of the situation has change. Back in 2010 amr was on the verge of bankruptcy in a very fragile industry that was just climbing out of record losses and bankruptcies. Now, airlines are in the best and most profitable economic industry condition since the wright brothers. I do agree with him that the nmb will ice us another couple months at least but there remains a chance that the nmb will issue a release then figure out if they peb this thing or not.

In the meantime, displaying AH 1% offer should be made visible and displayed in the streets and encourage a strike vote right now. No reason to wait.

Tim what you don't seem to realize is that the state of the airline doesn't amount to a hill of beans among the power players out there. Usair has a massive footprint in not just one but two key airports for those power players, LGA and DCA. Wall Street and Washington. Do you guys really believe that these people don't have massive influence in not seeing the airline have any disruptions? These are also not the days when there were open seats galore flying around out there. What's the capacity now? Like mid 80% or something.

The last major to go out was Northwest mechanics. The company was already training their replacements before they were allowed to strike and had minimal interruptions and replaced the workers. And again at that time there were plenty of other airlines and plenty of seats to chose from.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim. I don't know that brining back the current offer by the company and a subsequent strike vote is necessary at this time. Based on the 1%, and the past posture of the company in negotiations the past two years, I believe the membership is feeling quite disrespected, stoked and ready to seek self help. How could you feel any other way? I believe the members are locked, loaded and awaiting marching orders. Just where you need them to be. Wall street's reaction is understandably slow based on past history. With continual press releases by the union and an increase in informational picketing by the union; even the threat of a strike will begin to have an influence on the traveling public's booking travel for the upcoming summer months. Unlike Wall Street, they are not aware of the history of posturing in contract negotiations. They will simply book on another airline to avoid any potential disruptions in their itinerary. 

You bring it back and let them PROVE to the company and even more so the passengers and investors that you're pissed off and ready to go postal. That overwhelming NO vote is the true barometer to let the world know you've had enough.

And where are they going to book away to? Not many choices out there anymore.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim. I don't know that brining back the current offer by the company and a subsequent strike vote is necessary at this time. Based on the 1%, and the past posture of the company in negotiations the past two years, I believe the membership is feeling quite disrespected, stoked and ready to seek self help. How could you feel any other way? I believe the members are locked, loaded and awaiting marching orders. Just where you need them to be. Wall street's reaction is understandably slow based on past history. With continual press releases by the union and an increase in informational picketing by the union; even the threat of a strike will begin to have an influence on the traveling public's booking travel for the upcoming summer months. Unlike Wall Street, they are not aware of the history of posturing in contract negotiations. They will simply book on another airline to avoid any potential disruptions in their itinerary.

The reality is that the average member needs to see the ridiculous proposal and be given a chance to exercise his displeasure and to vote yes to strike. Anything less isnt as forceful. Use the strike vote now as a solidarity vote. Until then, my opinion and your opinion is all the iam has since they have not been
given the authority by the membership yet

As far as media and public display, id say that a strong strike vote sends the strongest message but not having a strike vote looks like a lack of trust.

Why the secrets? Why not show AH offer?
Why the paternalism? Something is wrong.

 

[Tim Nelson]

             ^^^ THIS!  ^^^

so when u say lock and load, wouldnt it be better to have a 95%+ strike vote on board with you? Until then, AH really doesnt know if the membership is ready to lock and load, does he?

You have to realize that you may be locked and loaded and put on ice for another one year so continuing the same path without other preparations is irresponsible. Plus AH prolly knows he can get the twu to pull away if we d#ck around stomping our feet and shouting to the media every two months. Im still scratching my head why we didnt entertain the 5 year duration but went for the 2 year plan.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You bring it back and let them PROVE to the company and even more so the passengers and investors that you're pissed off and ready to go postal. That overwhelming NO vote is the true barometer to let the world know you've had enough.
And where are they going to book away to? Not many choices out there anymore.

+1
AH doesnt give a sh#t what tiberi says. Every nmb meeting, tiberi claims strike. Has it changed AH position? Not one iota.
AH would hear the members alot louder. So would the public.Union leaders say strike alot. When a union leader says strike, few hear him...when thousands of members vote strike, that changes some things.They should also use that dopey proposal against the company and share with the public that management offered a 1% pay raise from 2013-2015.