2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

so when u say lock and load, wouldnt it be better to have a 95%+ strike vote on board with you? Until then, AH really doesnt know if the membership is ready to lock and load, does he?

You have to realize that you may be locked and loaded and put on ice for another one year so continuing the same path without other preparations is irresponsible. Plus AH prolly knows he can get the twu to pull away if we d#ck around stomping our feet and shouting to the media every two months. Im still scratching my head why we didnt entertain the 5 year duration but went for the 2 year plan.

How are you going to take a strike vote when we haven't even been released?

 

[700UW]

You can take a strike vote to show solidarity.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim. I don't know that brining back the current offer by the company and a subsequent strike vote is necessary at this time. Based on the 1%, and the past posture of the company in negotiations the past two years, I believe the membership is feeling quite disrespected, stoked and ready to seek self help. How could you feel any other way? I believe the members are locked, loaded and awaiting marching orders. Just where you need them to be. Wall street's reaction is understandably slow based on past history. With continual press releases by the union and an increase in informational picketing by the union; even the threat of a strike will begin to have an influence on the traveling public's booking travel for the upcoming summer months. Unlike Wall Street, they are not aware of the history of posturing in contract negotiations. They will simply book on another airline to avoid any potential disruptions in their itinerary.

ill tell you this much, if im elected, id rather have the backing and leverage of you and 95%+ of all members with your strike vote instead of joe tiberi tantrums and name calling after every round of negotiations.
A strike vote is an incredible display.
Id one up things. Instead of stopping short by having only pickets, id press for some votes. Until then im going to press the union to put the ball in the members hands.

 

[roabilly]

You can take a strike vote to show solidarity.

Has it ever been done that way before?

 

[cltrat]

How are you going to take a strike vote when we haven't even been released?

didn't UA take one on TA1?

 

[Tim Nelson]

How are you going to take a strike vote when we haven't even been released?

Simple. One technique that the iam hasnt taken advantage of is using a strike vote to build leverage and fortify a position. A release has nothing to do with it. A ta has nothing to do with it necessarily either. Other unions do this and i believe afa on usairways property took one without a ta.

In this case, the strike vote giving a union the authority ahead of a strike is a solidarity vote. Although a ta isnt needed to take a strike vote, united took a strike vote twice over the last year with a ta. Again, a release has nothing to do with it.

Ive yet to see the iam confirm the resolve of the membership with a strike vote while still in negotiations. I recommend they do this immeditaely and i will press with more authority if i get elected.

 

[ograc]

You bring it back and let them PROVE to the company and even more so the passengers and investors that you're pissed off and ready to go postal. That overwhelming NO vote is the true barometer to let the world know you've had enough.

And where are they going to book away to? Not many choices out there anymore.

There is plenty of choices. other airlines, rail, cruise ships or booking vacation destinations within driving distance. I believe the membership has had enough. We don't have to prove anything to the company or the traveling public. The IAM leadership is our bargaining representative. They speak for the membership. If the company thinks otherwise... let them call. If their assumption is wrong; their "seamless merger" plans are in the toilet. I think they are underestimating the resolve and intelligence of the membership. The stakes are high. I'm not sure they're prepared to call. The seamless merger is their goal. I say we hold our cards close to the chest and wait to see who blinks.  

 

[Tim Nelson]

There is plenty of choices. other airlines, rail, cruise ships or booking vacation destinations within driving distance. I believe the membership has had enough. We don't have to prove anything to the company or the traveling public. The IAM leadership is our bargaining representative. They speak for the membership. If the company thinks otherwise... let them call. If their assumption is wrong; their "seamless merger" plans are in the toilet. I think they are underestimating the resolve and intelligence of the membership. The stakes are high. I'm not sure they're prepared to call. The seamless merger is their goal. I say we hold our cards close to the chest and wait to see who blinks.

Off topic....that is my stance, ie, to advocate and put these decisions in the hands of the membership, including advocating a strike vote prior to any possible release. This position flies in the face of old school paternal unionism. I want the choices and disclosure in the hands of the members and to recommend against and push against an unfair agreement or to recommend and push a fair one.

Just want to let you and the members know before you consider me as a candidate. That stance will cost me votes of some but i want to make it clear what my position would be if elected.

It makes absolutely no sense to me for the union leaders to say we are prepared to strike without seeing what the hell is going on and without voting on strike. That my brother is what i call disrespectul.

 

[WeAAsles]

There is plenty of choices. other airlines, rail, cruise ships or booking vacation destinations within driving distance. I believe the membership has had enough. We don't have to prove anything to the company or the traveling public. The IAM leadership is our bargaining representative. They speak for the membership. If the company thinks otherwise... let them call. If their assumption is wrong; their "seamless merger" plans are in the toilet. I think they are underestimating the resolve and intelligence of the membership. The stakes are high. I'm not sure they're prepared to call. The seamless merger is their goal. I say we hold our cards close to the chest and wait to see who blinks.

I think AMTRAC waited to see who blinks for about 7 years.

 

[ograc]

Off topic....that is my stance, ie, to advocate and put these decisions in the hands of the membership, including advocating a strike vote prior to any possible release. This position flies in the face of old school paternal unionism. I want the choices and disclosure in the hands of the members and to recommend against and push against an unfair agreement or to recommend and push a fair one.

Just want to let you and the members know before you consider me as a candidate. That stance will cost me votes of some but i want to make it clear what my position would be if elected.

It makes absolutely no sense to me for the union leaders to say we are prepared to strike without seeing what the hell is going on and without voting on strike. That my brother is what i call disrespectul.

If a strike vote were to be taken next week, based on the information the NC has provided to this point, what would you think the outcome would be? Not necessarily disageeing with your reasoning here.

 

[mike33]

If a strike vote were to be taken next week, based on the information the NC has provided to this point, what would you think the outcome would be? Not necessarily disageeing with your reasoning here.

What info is that except 1% from what I hear!!!

Can't cofirm all the other stuff till we see it in writing

Strike Vote sounds really good to me.

Let's look at the offer and do it!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

If a strike vote were to be taken next week, based on the information the NC has provided to this point, what would you think the outcome would be? Not necessarily disageeing with your reasoning here.

if the offer really was 1% to cover 2013 and 2014 then id say lets bring out AH offer and use it against him by recommending a beatdown rejection. I think that offer would offend even our softest member. That offer would thoroughly embarass DP as well. Im uncomfortable putting an exact guess of the rejection vote and yes for strike but i wouldnt think it would be anything less than 92-93% but prolly even better, provided the leaders recommend the rejection and campaign for it.

I think the chances of the leadership getting what they want on both votes would be highly successful.

I helped coordinate the strike vote at united and it was highly successful even though in that case the leadership did nothing to solicit the vote.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Lets get this done. Company been calling bs long enuf.

 

[ograc]

What info is that except 1% from what I hear!!!

Can't cofirm all the other stuff till we see it in writing

Strike Vote sounds really good to me.

Let's look at the offer and do it!!!

Why do we need to see the offer? It's offensive and disrespectful. If it were anything close to fair the NC would have reached a TA and brought it back with a yes recommendation. We elected to have the IAM represent our collective best interests. Let's let them do that. The members will have an opportunity to see either a TA or a final offer in due time. Additionally, they will be given the opportunity to authorize self help through a strike vote in due time. The IAM and the NC has said the current proposal by the company is unacceptable and has asked to be released. Enough said!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why do we need to see the offer? It's offensive and disrespectful. If it were anything close to fair the NC would have reached a TA and brought it back with a yes recommendation. We elected to have the IAM represent our collective best interests. Let's let them do that. The members will have an opportunity to see either a TA or a final offer in due time. Additionally, they will be given the opportunity to authorize self help through a strike vote in due time. The IAM and the NC has said the current proposal by the company is unacceptable and has asked to be released. Enough said!

Being told "We are ready to strike" carries no weight and no leverage at all.  Zero.  In fact, I think this is the 4th time tiberi said it.   The union has to do better than that because AH is yawning.
 
The union leadership has been given no authority whatsoever regarding that by the way.  Such authority only comes with a strike vote and/or a rejection of a TA.    AH isn't going to raise any ante with a group who says 'strike' but has no authority to carry that out.   I can apprehend your "Enough said" comment but it leaves me uncomfortable since I really don't think nothing at all has been communicated to the membership other than "Prepare to strike".  What does that mean when we haven't been given any disclosure whatsoever?   Is it profane to show the company proposal? WTH?  Use the company proposal against management.   If we wait on self help and tie everything to self help, the very real risk is that we may be waiting an incredibly long time that we may not have.  We can't simply depend upon the NMB and expect it to rule in the next few weeks or months.  Most will say that the NMB isn't even close to ruling.  The NMB hasn't even ruled there is an impasse.  If a release happens in the next few weeks then I can agree with you but I think that is unlikely and that we must proceed.
 
What appears to be the case is that the leadership simply doesn't trust the membership with a strike ballot.  I think that is unfortunate and that is exactly what AH must think.  That unknown must be resolved and plenty quick. Covering our bases is key. A strong strike vote will increase leverage and solidarity. Whatever the case, there isn't any option but to trust the membership.