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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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Oh you don't have to bet Al Hemenway has a screen name and comes on here, we know this and he knows who some of us are, him and I have gone round and round on here and then he was told not to post by his boss.

Other executives are on here too.

As soon as the board declares the impasse the final offer will be voted on and a strike vote will take place at the same time.

We have been doing this for over 20 years with them.
 
700UW said:
Oh you don't have to bet Al Hemenway has a screen name and comes on here, we know this and he knows who some of us are, him and I have gone round and round on here and then he was told not to post by his boss. Other executives are on here too. As soon as the board declares the impasse the final offer will be voted on and a strike vote will take place at the same time. We have been doing this for over 20 years with them.
So you're just going to keep holding out for someone else to make the decision for you? And if the NMB continues to say "Let's talk some more" you're going to say, OK?

At one point in our process the NMB said to our guys "If you don't let your members vote on something the President (Obama) is not going to like it and you'll be on ice for another year" After Jim Little found out that our NC was threatened by the NMB to hold a vote he pulled the TA.

Many of us then lobbied to let our voices be heard. We were going to tell the company and the NMB where they could shove there threats. We never got that chance since the company filed BK and hindsight is 20/20, but some of us would have liked to have determined the next course.
 
WeAAsles said:
No. What needs to be done is send that last POS offer the company gives you out for a vote with a firm NO recommendation. And you attach that a NO vote is an authorization to strike.

What NYer has said is irrelevant to whether management sees it or not. Assuming your enemy is stupid only makes you the fool. You have to be just as smart and informed as they are.

I can bet $1000 that that AH guy comes on here and reads every night. I would bet that Doug himself comes on here and reads. Well Doug has said publicly and loudly that the key to this enterprise being a success is going to be good labor relations right. Him and the other exec's are compensated through the rise of that stock and just like us they want to get paid. So how do you whack that pay and make him look like a fool at the same time?

You show EVERYONE by that vote that this enterprise has got a problem. You have faith in your members that they will go along with your battle cry. You give your members the loaded guns and send them forward. You do the exact opposite of what they want you to do!!!!
Well, that makes two of us who have been harping on this.  I don't understand why it hasn't been done and why some are fighting hard against this. 
 
I understand 700's commitment to the release, and I think pushing for a release is great, but that doesn't mean we have to ice ourselves every two months for another mercy time meeting at the NMB offices.  We can't control the NMB but we can engage the membership.
 
700UW said:
Oh you don't have to bet Al Hemenway has a screen name and comes on here, we know this and he knows who some of us are, him and I have gone round and round on here and then he was told not to post by his boss. Other executives are on here too. As soon as the board declares the impasse the final offer will be voted on and a strike vote will take place at the same time. We have been doing this for over 20 years with them.
Let me recommend trying something different than the same ole chest thumping old school method keeping the membership on the sidelines. As an IAM member, I can assure you that things haven't worked out too well with the dino methods.  There is a reason why the upstairs CWA members have advanced past the rampers who organized sooner. There is a reason why the IBT and AFA got a first bite at United, while the IAM backed itself into a corner and got joint contract scraps. Let's not continually make the same exact mistakes over and over again.  I'm not arguing against a release but if you are wrong and the NMB doesn't declare an impasse next month then at what point do you finally suggest that maybe a plan B might be appropriate?
 
As far as AH, yes, he is on here. How do I know?  Because 14 years ago I put a 1-800 number on here I paid for and gave recorded messages to the membership and it also allowed those calling in to leave messages. Well, once during fleet service negotiations, one of our NC members "GB", a good friend of mine, called the number while in negotiations to listen to my message. Apparently he had a landline phone placed on speaker and when he forgot to hang it up, it was still on speaker so I heard most of the negotiation session where the NC was talking to AH about me.  Of course, I played the playback on the number for everyone to hear. 
 
Back in 2008 talks, MF kept giving me updates and there was one of our NC members who had his laptop out during negotiations and they were constantly seeing what I had to say.  I hope they are listening now and I hope that the proposal can be seen and a strike vote taken.  If I get elected in June [a big if], as an AGC elect, I will use whatever new authority as an AGC that I would have to pressure TR and RD even more to bring out these proposals.  I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong in wanting to be 'all in' with the NMB, and maybe you have info I dont',  but I'd prefer an additional style and engage the membership right now.
 
After reading this thread over the last week or so I have to reach out to all who have posted. I don't like the fighting I am seeing. I think NYer and WeAAsles are making some very valid points along with 700 and TN. We shouldn't be fighting though. I will clarify that the Company is offering BS and that I for one am listening to all of you. Be patient.
 
P. Rez  
 
P. REZ said:
After reading this thread over the last week or so I have to reach out to all who have posted. I don't like the fighting I am seeing. I think NYer and WeAAsles are making some very valid points along with 700 and TN. We shouldn't be fighting though. I will clarify that the Company is offering BS and that I for one am listening to all of you. Be patient.
 
P. Rez  
Thanks Pat. I can absolutely promise you that our members on this side are pulling for you guys.

And NO we absolutely shouldn't be fighting with each other. We need to listen and learn from each other to have a stronger focus on where we all want to be in the future.
 
700UW said:
PATCO were federal workers and by law werent allowed to strike.
 
Compare apples to apples, not oranges.
 
And why are you so dead set against the IAM and its three represented groups at US going on strike?
 
You havent lived it at US, you havent been in bankruptcy twice in less than two years, and you didnt have your management go behind your back and negotiate with employees that dont even work for them and give them deals, why your own employees have been in negotiations for almost three years and you insult them.
 
Go back to the AA board and spew your fear there, the IAM folks here want a new CBA with the respect they deserve or they will strike when the law permits.
 
Do hard to understand the concept of people standing up for themselves?
 
Like I stated before the AFA and CWA both took strike votes and forced the company to deal with them more fairly during bankruptcy part 2.
 
Saying you're going to do something is only effective if you can actually do it. The NMB will NOT allow a strike....
 
Vote as many times as you want. Create solidarity, try to scare the airline and the flying public, if they lend themselves to it.
 
However, it is not how you will get the deal you believe you deserve. That's done by talking, meeting and moving forward with the process that includes the NMB. They drive the boat and they control the process. Realize that and work within those parameters if you want to get a deal.
 
700UW said:
You guys dont get it. Yes we do. We lived it and went through the same process you're promoting. It doesn't work in this environment.
 
The only pressure the unions and its members can do is work safe, and use the media. Work safe...correct. The media...Not quite, they control what they write and they have their own interpretations. Every time a union in the AA negotiations mentioned strike, the media would bring down the hysteria by telling the public nothing was imminent and went on to explain the RLA.
 
The AFA and CWA were quite successful in using a non-binding strike vote to get US to the table in chapter 11 part 2. What was that 2005? These are different times, a different industry and a different Administration.
 
We lived it, have you? Yes. We went through this same process in 2009, 2010 and into 2011.
 
It shows strength and solidarity to the company and hopefully upsets Wall Street and future bookings, thats what it takes to get a fair CBA in the industry, been going on in my 20 years at US. Wall Street knows the drill and they are not going to be mesmerized by a vote. They know how the process works, probably better than we do.
 
And I am telling him the history of what has happened at US, AA was in financial mess during your talks, US is making money and has been for years and wont pass it on to the very same employees who earn that money for US. And they're certainly telling the NMB that the fruits of that will be met during the Joint talks. Do you believe it is a coincidence Parker has been mentioning how Labor will be brought up to top of the industry. You can bet those are the same talks in the offices of the NMB. They're likely to say, close this negotiations out and if they don't comply with their words during the Joint talks, then we will gladly receive you once again.
 
He is chicken little, let the US and the IAM handle their issues instead of chicken little coming over here and telling whats gonna happen, dont do this, dont do that. We've been through the process. You can ignore the experience if you'd like...but eventually you'll experience it too. Hopefully it wouldn't take as long as it did with us.
 
This is the IAM and US, he isnt either and let them decide their futures and their CBA, not someone who wont be effected by it.
 
US' employees have been under basically Chapter 11 CBAs since 2002, its time make some gains and be respected. That's great. We said the same things in our negotiations because we had a BK type CBA since 2003. The NMB kept telling us to move on. This isn't 2003 and that Chapter needs to be closed.
 
Doug and Al slapped his own employees in the face by agreeing to MOUs with AA and its employees giving them increases while he spit in the face of his own employees.
 
The NMB doesnt give a crap about Wall Street and stock prices, yet he is trying to throw out some much garbage and see what sticks.
 
He doesnt have a vote in the matter, so let the US employees decide their future.
 
And I guess some of you dont realize the better CBA the three IAM represented groups get at US means a better JCBA contract for both US and AA. Of course we do. So does Parker & Co. So does the NMB. That being the case what makes you believe he will give an industry leading contract or something to that effect, if they have to turn around that do it all over again.
 
Without even negotiating the Labor expenses have already gone up. It will take millions just bring everything up to part with our better wages and your better language in VC's, HW's and even the Medical. Those rises are a given. They won't expand on those now, only to get demands for further expansion in the Joint talks. C'mon.
 
Save and protect your Scope now. Get raises now. Then we can tackle the other issues in the Joint talks.
 
The longer these talks take, the longer the Joint talks are driven further away the more value we lose each and every day.
 
P. REZ said:
After reading this thread over the last week or so I have to reach out to all who have posted. I don't like the fighting I am seeing. I think NYer and WeAAsles are making some very valid points along with 700 and TN. We shouldn't be fighting though. I will clarify that the Company is offering BS and that I for one am listening to all of you. Be patient.
 
P. Rez  
 
We're not fighting Rez. It is healthy to see different perspectives. Your gain is our gain and vice versa.
 
We experienced this process and we had the same talking points down to the exclamation point. It took time, but we realized what could and couldn't be done and we moved on from there. Thankfully, we were able to see an alternative to gain some of what we wanted and holding on losing what we didn't want to lose.
 
If there is any value to be gained in that experience, we are more than happy to participate in these forums to bounce off ideas from each other. Unfortunately, some are completely convinced their tactic is the only viable option, as we thought the same, but it isn't and all options needs to be explored and debated.
 
john john said:
Did the light just turn on. What a great principle
broken record. Ive been saying to take a strike vote ahead of future negotiations or at worst bring it with that cruddy offer expected to reject. Should happen yesterday as the nmb ice is thick. Im not sure the "lets wait and see what the nmb meeting does" is too wise if we keep circling the same thing. At some point, the iam is going to have to Y this thing into two different flanks. Hopefully that wont be any later than one more nmb mercy meeting.
 
I CALL DIBS ON BEING AL HEMMINGWAY , IF JESTER OR TIM HAVE ALREADY TAKEN HIM THEN I AT LEAST WANT TO BE DOUG PARKER ...
( BECAUSE EVERYONE ON HERE IS THREE PEOPLE AND AS WE ALL KNOW ALL POSTERS OTHER THAN MYSELF ARE MANAGMENT IN DIGUISE)
 
freedom  I am personally in no way shape or form part of mgmt.   I don't need to  and I wont be part of those disgusting a holes.   you on the other hand need serious help man.   most of the folks on here are or were part of the IAM at one point or anther or are a dues paying member.
 
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD EXPECT YOU TO SAY "MANGER ROBBED AGAIN"!
 
freedom said:
THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD EXPECT YOU TO SAY "MANGER ROBBED AGAIN"!
Look I think the board is wrong to keep harping at you about your support of the '08 agreement but seriously...

You think Robbed is management? Is something in the water at PHX?

Josh
 
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