2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

tim  I believe either phl or clt and dca were no votes for that 08 contract.    there were a nbr of east cities that voted against it.
 
josh  the ua deal was a he!! of a screw up  and while it should of never been brought up the point is  those ua folks voted for it without reading the scope area  now their paying the price   but in the end they'll all learn that hard lesson.   I do not think we will get something like that but stranger things have happened.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, seriously. From what I understand in that UAL contract prior to ratification UAL had the ability to close all of those stations anyway? The only thing that would have been left had they initiated that was bumping rights but NO job guarantees?

If the company said to the NC "Look take it or leave it but we're going to start closing those stations no matter what you decide" What could they have done? Even if they held out how long would it have taken and those stations would have been closed down anyway?

What does frighten me I have to admit in many of your IAM contracts is the Full Time/Part time ratios. What difference does it make if I'm making say $26 per hour if I'm only guaranteed 4 hours of work per day? And until I had read some of your contracts and talked to some DAL people I had never heard of "Ready reserve" 

I hope much of that Part Time flood is due to bankruptcies and didn't exist prior to that?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, seriously. From what I understand in that UAL contract prior to ratification UAL had the ability to close all of those stations anyway? The only thing that would have been left had they initiated that was bumping rights but NO job guarantees?
If the company said to the NC "Look take it or leave it but we're going to start closing those stations no matter what you decide" What could they have done? Even if they held out how long would it have taken and those stations would have been closed down anyway?
What does frighten me I have to admit in many of your IAM contracts is the Full Time/Part time ratios. What difference does it make if I'm making say $26 per hour if I'm only guaranteed 4 hours of work per day? And until I had read some of your contracts and talked to some DAL people I had never heard of "Ready reserve" 
I hope much of that Part Time flood is due to bankruptcies and didn't exist prior to that?

the united ramp contract had a 30% cap, mostly free health care of those in hmo, best scope in the industrywith all 29 ramp stations with at least one mainline flight., al lead scale which gave all leads, regardless of time, top out pay plus premium. Among many other deep concessions over work rules that got gutted. AH wants to be treated as fairly as our leaders treated united management. That pressure also extends to 142 as well due to 141 united deal.

 

[Tim Nelson]

tim  I believe either phl or clt and dca were no votes for that 08 contract.    there were a nbr of east cities that voted against it.
 
josh  the ua deal was a he!! of a screw up  and while it should of never been brought up the point is  those ua folks voted for it without reading the scope area  now their paying the price   but in the end they'll all learn that hard lesson.   I do not think we will get something like that but stranger things have happened.

the united mrmbers actually read the contract but the explanation meetings were full of lies. Only now are some leaders finally saying that they didnt lie but rather they misunderstood what they signed but whats the difference?

 

[john john]

THAT.... is the company's ace in the hole!

And has this every been done in the history of aviation

 

[WeAAsles]

the united ramp contract had a 30% cap, mostly free health care of those in hmo, best scope in the industry with all 29 ramp stations with at least one mainline flight., al lead scale which gave all leads, regardless of time, top out pay plus premium. Among many other deep concessions over work rules that got gutted. AH wants to be treated as fairly as our leaders treated united management. That pressure also extends to 142 as well due to 141 united deal.

Alright Tim without the soapbox what I want to understand is what was the emphasis then in bringing back what you call a concessionary contract out of bankruptcy? There had to be items in there that the company was going to take advantage of that were improved upon? That was an integration contract for UAL/CO right. Was it the CO side that had the weak language then? 

There has to be more to this then you're saying?

 

[WeAAsles]

What is the Full Time/Part Time ratio in your current USair contract?

 

[700UW]

To NYer,
 
I am not getting into a pissing match with you but you at AA did not go through the same concessions as we did at US.
 
Bankruptcy 1, we took two rounds of concessions, that was 2002 and 2003.
 
Bankruptcy 2, we took pension loss, 46% of maintenance laidoff and many other things, and that was 2004 and 2005.
 
You did not suffer the same pain and length of time that the PMUS employees have suffered.

 

[T5towbar]

tim  I believe either phl or clt and dca were no votes for that 08 contract.    there were a nbr of east cities that voted against it.
 
josh  the ua deal was a he!! of a screw up  and while it should of never been brought up the point is  those ua folks voted for it without reading the scope area  now their paying the price   but in the end they'll all learn that hard lesson.   I do not think we will get something like that but stranger things have happened.

It was voted in on the second go around because of the retro money and the promise (or lie) of LOA #5. Why was that put in there in the first place. LOA #6 swayed some people as well.

 

the united ramp contract had a 30% cap, mostly free health care of those in hmo, best scope in the industrywith all 29 ramp stations with at least one mainline flight., al lead scale which gave all leads, regardless of time, top out pay plus premium. Among many other deep concessions over work rules that got gutted. AH wants to be treated as fairly as our leaders treated united management. That pressure also extends to 142 as well due to 141 united deal.

That is correct and I (myself) thought the original negotiations were going to start at. But we knew that they weren't going to have topped out leads in the new contract. That was a non-starter since one side didn't have it. We have a lot of junior leads on our side, since that position (and other specialty positions like the Move Team, and etc.) were not based on strict seniority. The "free health care" would have been a problem as well, due to the fact of the new regulations of the ACA. It would have to been tweaked a whole lot. Again, one side was paying more for insurance. Our IBT deal had weak language, but it had protections for outsourcing and Cargo. The big mystery which I will never understand is how in the hell that we went from a bankruptcy contract to a company handbook (FTW) for a starting point in negotiations?

Alright Tim without the soapbox what I want to understand is what was the emphasis then in bringing back what you call a concessionary contract out of bankruptcy? There had to be items in there that the company was going to take advantage of that were improved upon? That was an integration contract for UAL/CO right. Was it the CO side that had the weak language then? 

There has to be more to this then you're saying?

Yes, the IBT contract was a rushed contract and it was very weak. But yes it served for the baseline. Scope was given up. I thought that the contract should have started from the 2009 agreement, added IAH to the protected cities, and added some of our overrides (like the 1.00 market rate adjustment) to ORD; and other positive things that sCO had and worked UPWARD.

Bottom line: It takes the worst conditions of all 3 agreements, so it it concessionary. People bought it and the 2 biggest stations (ORD and IAH) carried it. Our station (and Tim can attest to it) voted NO. We got punished BEFORE and AFTER this contract.

 

[737823]

To NYer,
 
I am not getting into a pissing match with you but you at AA did not go through the same concessions as we did at US.
 
Bankruptcy 1, we took two rounds of concessions, that was 2002 and 2003.
 
Bankruptcy 2, we took pension loss, 46% of maintenance laidoff and many other things, and that was 2004 and 2005.
 
You did not suffer the same pain and length of time that the PMUS employees have suffered.

No but you are saying you gave more concessions and the implication is that the current US IAM agreement sucks less than AA TWU. Just get over it already they both suck and focus forward on improving both agreements in joint talks. We already know the IAM allowed the US employees to take a serious beating move on and get over it.

Josh

 

[T5towbar]

some of my comments are in the second box, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

 

[700UW]

No but you are saying you gave more concessions and the implication is that the current US IAM agreement sucks less than AA TWU. Just get over it already they both suck and focus forward on improving both agreements in joint talks. We already know the IAM allowed the US employees to take a serious beating move on and get over it.

Josh

Stirring the pot I see.
 
It was bankruptcy, go educate yourself, oh wait, here is what you said the other day.
 
 

The loss of jobs is unfortunate but yes I agree BANKRUPTCY caused it.
Josh

 

[737823]

Yep clever. But that was for AA TWU jobs at MIA, not US IAM jobs. The TWU is a whole different animal.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Why do some people feel the need to compare themselves to others? I have a friend from High School who works at JFK for a company called AGI doing the same thing we do. He told me that after 10 years he makes $14.30 per hour with NO benefits. Here in MIA the big company doing sub work is called Eulen America. I believe there top out rate is $12.50 again with NO benefits.

Another best friend of mine who has a college degree just started a new job selling lawn care for Scotts door to door. I think he says they're paying him $600 per week. IF he can sell the product and keep the job he'll be laid off for 4 months out of the year. Oh I don't think he gets benefits either?

Man we really need to walk a mile in some other people's shoes to realize how truly bad off we are.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yep clever. But that was for AA TWU jobs at MIA, not US IAM jobs. The TWU is a whole different animal.

Josh

Josh the ENTIRE Industry has been decimated by the revolving door of Bankruptcy. Who cares how much anyone lost over another. We ALL lost!!!!!

 

[737823]

Josh the ENTIRE Industry has been decimated by the revolving door of Bankruptcy. Who cares how much anyone lost over another. We ALL lost!!!!!

That's my point tell that to 700. The TWU did a better job protecting you guys than the IAM especially for fleet service. All the IAM has done is ushered in concessions across the industry that have far reaching effects.

I acknowledged for AA MIA, my local home airport and carrier of choice. I know all about Eulen America, their management, business practices, etc.

Josh