2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Roa  I don't think youre a moron or anything bro..   I for one do think our NC team is doing the best they can but the problems are the NMB and the dirty ole Donkeys with their refusal to actually negogiate yet they give the AA folks higher wages etc to do the same job we do    
 
Screw that   Enough is Enough  Efff them f..krs      Time to be released 
 
Tim  IF and that's a big IF   you were to be elected   you claim you would bring my case up right away  or shortly there after  but im still waiting to see how that will happen given the fact my case is awaiting arb hearing date to be set....  considering the dates have to be agreed upon by all parties

Obviously, you want to believe what you want.  You and some others on here want to believe BS, so I guess I can't stop that.  Keep believing that the NC isn't playing politics and that FO is powerless after 5 years to handle your case because of big bad mediators and everyone else.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I've said about all I can say on here to make sure everyone is truly informed of the things written down on paper.  You know, the TWU contract, the IAM pledge written down, everything.  I've even brought out the fact of what happened at United with the same path and what has thus far happened at US AIRWAYS and how management seems to find contracts with all the other groups except ours.  Yet, the present opinion on here seems to be that everyone believes what the NC wants them to believe, which exactly mirrors what everyone at United chose to believe.  I can't fight with politics and bull sh*t.  The conversation is exhausted for now. The heathen has left the church so now is the time for the choir to sing kumbuya to the political high priest the following verses:
 
1. Tim Nelson is an ass.
2. pay no attention to United and bury your head to the realities of this path.
3. The NC is going to get AH to submit because he really is going to get a bigger bag to fit all the potatoes in
4. The TWU is going to intentionally drag out single carrier for months and years because they really don't care about hundreds of members laid off and will show us unconditional love
5. the IAM doesn't really mean what it signed. It will continue stand alone talks forever.
6. AH and JG have a sense of humor and will play along and won't continually constrict whatever we could have gained.
 
The best part of that kumbuya song is that it can't be disproved because it's in the future! 

 

[cltrat]

while I remain hopeful there will be a release ,I have been and remain skeptical there will be one, therefore I would like to hear what plan B is? what to we do and where do we go from there?
Can anyone offer an opinion on what happens besides Tim or besides saying he's playing politics?
If you're willing to say he is full of chit then you should have thoughts on what will happen and what should be done.

 

[robbedagain]

tim    while I do understand your position  yes I do admit FO dropped the ball on my case but im not giving up  
 
the reason I say what I say about our nc is bec if they truly wanted to get a deal quickly they would have settled long ago  but the fact is tim they have been sticking to their guns  and as orgac has said   LOCK n LOAD    the fact is our NC has held strong so far  

 

[Tim Nelson]

while I remain hopeful there will be a release ,I have been and remain skeptical there will be one, therefore I would like to hear what plan B is? what to we do and where do we go from there?
Can anyone offer an opinion on what happens besides Tim or besides saying he's playing politics?
If you're willing to say he is full of chit then you should have thoughts on what will happen and what should be done.

One last thing. You don't even need an opinion.  Plan B happened at United.  And Plan B is explicitly written in the association agreement with its accompanying Q & A where stand alone talks "Until" single carrier. That isn't opinion, that is what is written. That, my friend, is Plan B.  That's the big elephant in the room.  Gotta go 

 

[Tim Nelson]

tim    while I do understand your position  yes I do admit FO dropped the ball on my case but im not giving up  
 
the reason I say what I say about our nc is bec if they truly wanted to get a deal quickly they would have settled long ago  but the fact is tim they have been sticking to their guns  and as orgac has said   LOCK n LOAD    the fact is our NC has held strong so far  

They have a vote in June. It's the same path at United two years ago. Blow smoke.  Whatever Robbed.  Anyone can hold out and fire out an email saying how they will get AH to submit to putting 10lbs of potatoes in a 5 lb bag.
 
Anyone can say that. Anyone.  The problem is that AH doesn't have a sense of humor.  Neither did United management.  What you continually fail to realize Robbed is that there is a timeline that is getting close as heck and it will force the NC to get out of stand alone talks, prolly with $0 UNLESS they stop playing politics.  Ask yourself why the IAM at United got goose-egged prior to joint talks.  No, really, ask yourself that?  Ask yourself if Big Al is going to do the one thing that he didn't do with even either pilot group, for our group?  Ask yourself that?  Ask yourself why those who counter me necessarily have to hold the position that the TWU will violate its contract and that the arbitrator will violate the timeline terms of any resolution terms ALREADY negotiated.  Ask yourself of that possibility?  Ask yourself why on the internet and alias handles and media reports that the IAM talks tough but has signed documents agreeing with the TWU to stand alone timelines. 
 
Now, if you answered wrongly towards any of the above [FWIW it's virtually impossible to do so], then you have just accused the TWU, an arbitrator, the IAM itself, management, the NMB and all of the above of violating things written down and have believed a lie.  Although all of the above is known for those who read it, what is unknown is a release.  But a release WILL BE known by June 9.  In fact, the NMB isn't ignorant on a single carrier application or contracts so if the release doesn't come by June 1 then you can forget about it.   I'm sure the NC may continue to blow smoke after June 9 for more votes but the NMB will not reward a union who violates its agreement, and give another union a release.  And the NMB has never granted a release, EVER, when a single carrier application was filed prior to a release determination.  All of that and everything above is known and separate from opinion. 
 
Now if Mark Baskett, who wasn't even allowed in the negotiation room last time, can fire off an email saying he is going to get AH to give us all that he owes us, and you and your group believe that by rejecting everything else that you were just told then I can tell you that you will not like the end result and will prolly be even more pissed off at AH since you will have to blame someone.   One thing is for sure, something is going to give and plenty soon.

 

[roabilly]

One last thing. You don't even need an opinion.  Plan B happened at United.  And Plan B is explicitly written in the association agreement with its accompanying Q & A where stand alone talks "Until" single carrier. That isn't opinion, that is what is written. That, my friend, is Plan B.  That's the big elephant in the room.  Gotta go 

Is this “Plan B” that you have so endearingly embraced a solution that simply settles Section 6 with nothing, or very little, so that Fleet can actively engage in JCBA talks? You say the IAM has no plan B... what is YOURS if we were elect YOU in June?
 
This brings me to the question you continue to dance around without a definitive YES or NO...
 
Are you actively pursuing a course that would lead to a settlement of 6 talks now, in hopes that the Company will keep their promise and reward the Group in the Transition Agreement? YES or NO?

 

[robbedagain]

If the NMB does RELEASE both groups  Tim how will you respond to that?  
 
Don't get me wrong Tim I do understand what youre saying  but in my own opin  theres so much politics in the way  given what is at stake here.  
 
I do not think our NC team will allow for a UA type of deal to get past them    to be put out for membership vote  but EVEN if it did Id imagine that that would be recommended no vote and I do think it would be SHOT DOWN big time without a doubt.   That's just my own opin  and if it were to happen  Just imagine the face of that f..kin a hole AH

 

[Tim Nelson]

Is this Plan B that you have so endearingly embraced a solution that simply settles Section 6 with nothing, or very little, so that Fleet can actively engage in JCBA talks? You say the IAM has no plan B... what is YOURS if we were elect YOU in June?
 
This brings me to the question you continue to dance around without a definitive YES or NO...
 
Are you actively pursuing a course that would lead to a settlement of 6 talks now, in hopes that the Company will keep their promise and reward the Group in the Transition Agreement? YES or NO?

the only one who beats his chest then signs on to company promises id delaneys team. They have a no hitter perfect game going over the past 6 years even considering grievances like robbed again.
Iam plan B is clearly written to take $0 and enter joint talks once a single carrier is ruled. You need to start reading what your boys actually signed on to instead of believing treasure island scenerios.

My plan A is to leverage whatever remaining leverage we may have with a release but that leverage expires before anyone wins an election. Besides myself or any candidate is obligated to uphold the alliance agreement which your boys timed out stand alone talks with. Candidates get sworn in in october so myself or any other candidate would be dealing with joint talks by then. Hopefully the current eboard can address outstanding issues and work on that bag of potatoes because the bag boy isnt going to be overstuffing the bag and punches out in a few months.

 

[roabilly]

while I remain hopeful there will be a release ,I have been and remain skeptical there will be one, therefore I would like to hear what plan B is? what to we do and where do we go from there?
Can anyone offer an opinion on what happens besides Tim or besides saying he's playing politics?
If you're willing to say he is full of chit then you should have thoughts on what will happen and what should be done.

I don’t proclaim to be a genius, nor am I seeking office, but I’m pretty damn sure if the 141/142 and/or the Association has a comprehensive “Plan B” they are not going to share it in a public forum where the Company will certainly learn what it is, and adjust their strategy accordingly...
 
Have you attended any of the informational meetings?

 

[roabilly]

the only one who beats his chest then signs on to company promises id delaneys team. They have a no hitter perfect game going over the past 6 years even considering grievances like robbed again.
Iam plan B is clearly written to take $0 and enter joint talks once a single carrier is ruled. You need to start reading what your boys actually signed on to instead of believing treasure island scenerios.

My plan A is to leverage whatever remaining leverage we may have with a release but that leverage expires before anyone wins an election. Besides myself or any candidate is obligated to uphold the alliance agreement which your boys timed out stand alone talks with. Candidates get sworn in in october so myself or any other candidate would be dealing with joint talks by then. Hopefully the current eboard can address outstanding issues and work on that bag of potatoes because the bag boy isnt going to be overstuffing the bag and punches out in a few months.

Are you saying YES to the question?

 

[Tim Nelson]

If the NMB does RELEASE both groups  Tim how will you respond to that?  
 
Don't get me wrong Tim I do understand what youre saying  but in my own opin  theres so much politics in the way  given what is at stake here.  
 
I do not think our NC team will allow for a UA type of deal to get past them    to be put out for membership vote  but EVEN if it did Id imagine that that would be recommended no vote and I do think it would be SHOT DOWN big time without a doubt.   That's just my own opin  and if it were to happen  Just imagine the face of that f..kin a hole AH

let me repeat myself, dont go by what anyone is telling you, go by what is signed. You dont think these boys will do unto u as they did upon united even with the same exact thing happening?
Interesting but im not surprised. People love fairy tales.

What would i do with a release? Id be ecstatic. And id know what to do with it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Are you saying YES to the question?

of course i would try to get a section 6 agreement that is fair. Is there someone who wouldnt?

The present course of events have led to polarizations as AH, and now JG, has offered less and less. Obviously there has to be a better way than giving ultimatums, yes?

 

[roabilly]

of course i would try to get a section 6 agreement that is fair. Is there someone who wouldnt?

The present course of events have led to polarizations as AH, and now JG, has offered less and less. Obviously there has to be a better way than giving ultimatums, yes?

OK... fair enough.... so what is this "better way" you speak of... how would you have played this?
 
Keep in mind that your predictions of doom have NOT occurred, you are projecting these events for the future...

 

[Tim Nelson]

OK... fair enough.... so what is this "better way" you speak of... how would you have played this?
 
Keep in mind that your predictions of doom have NOT occurred, you are projecting these events for the future...

I would have tried to agree to more time than what the iam agreed to regarding stand alone talks. Im uncomfortable with the deadline of single carrier. Now, it is what it is. That said, unless there was an "off the record" nmb note promising a release, i wouldnt be issuing ultimatums to AH. There isnt any need for ultimatums, doesnt mean anyone caves in just means that you keep the door open to consider everything that may be on the table. Ultimatums usually polarize talks and things come off the table as we have witnessed here.