2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[cltrat]

I don’t proclaim to be a genius, nor am I seeking office, but I’m pretty damn sure if the 141/142 and/or the Association has a comprehensive “Plan B” they are not going to share it in a public forum where the Company will certainly learn what it is, and adjust their strategy accordingly...
 
Have you attended any of the informational meetings?

I have been at briefings on property I have not attended anything off property.

 

[ograc]

I'm told the NC has proposed improvements in scope language in Section 6 negotiations. Yet this proposal has not been shared with the membership. I'm told the NC has proposed improvements in 6 categories of the CBA. Yet these proposals have not been shared with the membership either. I don't understand the strategy of not informing the membership exactly what has been proposed. I understand that negotiations are fluid; but I believe it would be in the best interest of the NC and the District to share the proposals with the membership. Then the membership could judge for themselves if they are indeed reasonable proposals. Then the membership could see the insulting posture of the company. Is retroactive pay part of the proposals? Who knows. If you are to effectively lead; you must shed some light on the path.  

 

[mike33]

I'm told the NC has proposed improvements in scope language in Section 6 negotiations. Yet this proposal has not been shared with the membership. I'm told the NC has proposed improvements in 6 categories of the CBA. Yet these proposals have not been shared with the membership either. I don't understand the strategy of not informing the membership exactly what has been proposed. I understand that negotiations are fluid; but I believe it would be in the best interest of the NC and the District to share the proposals with the membership. Then the membership could judge for themselves if they are indeed reasonable proposals. Then the membership could see the insulting posture of the company. Is retroactive pay part of the proposals? Who knows. If you are to effectively lead; you must shed some light on the path.  

 Ive heard it isn't....the retro would be from date of TA negotiations till signed...nothing in sec-6. I've always believed that the amendable date FWD till sec 6 signing was retro'd but i guess not..  Mtc would be because they have the 3% clause in their CBA. But they don't have very good scope so i don't know what to think!
  I have to say though i heard it from the district not from the NC...

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ive heard it isn't....the retro would be from date of TA negotiations till signed...nothing in sec-6. I've always believed that the amendable date FWD till sec 6 signing was retro'd but i guess not..  Mtc would be because they have the 3% clause in their CBA. But they don't have very good scope so i don't know what to think!
  I have to say though i heard it from the district not from the NC...

retro is suppose to be included in contracts from the first day of negotiations whether a group has a contract or not. The continenral ramp got it in their first contract. Delaney claims he got it for all at united. It should have been included in ours as well but it wasnt. That said, we are bumping up on timelines so we need to find solutions starting with wage and scope. If a release is granted then that changes the leverage.

 

[robbedagain]

tim  if there is a release  then that leverage has to be even better in our favor...  correct?
 
 
Orgac   I too think it would be nice to see the proposal from both sides    think it would be a good thing to see and compare

 

[wings396]

As I have said over and over again, retro pay is a MUST. The company has jacked us around for 2 years, and retro pay is our only path to be compensated for this time.

 

[Tim Nelson]

tim  if there is a release  then that leverage has to be even better in our favor...  correct?
 
 
Orgac   I too think it would be nice to see the proposal from both sides    think it would be a good thing to see and compare

a release would definately give our members leverage. It would be exciting actually as no doubt we are up against the clock without a release in the next two months. The nmb has never given a release (key word never) after a single carrier is filed or after a union has intentionally violated an agreement.

If a release comes then i would think it would come sometime in april.

The nmb will not issue a release if there is movement. AH and JG was suppose to get back to the nmb. The nmb will go from there.

As for what is on the table, the nc has not proposed scope that grandfathers a current snapshot of work into scope. Also, they are focusing on a $500 signing bonus and not retro.
What is disturbing is that it seems a complete shuffling of priorities may be in order as we should vomit if we get more sick time tokens but push the scope buck into joint talks where more work may get killed.

At any rate, we will know alot more by june. And it would really be nice if the iam141 would let us see the union proposal. Management saw the final proposal...why not you?
Something is wrong.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm told the NC has proposed improvements in scope language in Section 6 negotiations. Yet this proposal has not been shared with the membership. I'm told the NC has proposed improvements in 6 categories of the CBA. Yet these proposals have not been shared with the membership either. I don't understand the strategy of not informing the membership exactly what has been proposed. I understand that negotiations are fluid; but I believe it would be in the best interest of the NC and the District to share the proposals with the membership. Then the membership could judge for themselves if they are indeed reasonable proposals. Then the membership could see the insulting posture of the company. Is retroactive pay part of the proposals? Who knows. If you are to effectively lead; you must shed some light on the path.  

It's probably not a good idea to share what your NC is aiming for or where they are currently at publicly as it could serve to undermine their continuing efforts during the talks? You would get a range of emotions and comments on these pages and others that the company could wind up trying to exploit and I don't think it would help the process unless you had something to vote on.

As far as retro that should be a given but it isn't always necessarily so. It's something that has to be agreed on during negotiations and probably usually comes near the end of those talks. You cold have stipulations for it in your current CBA's but I doubt the company would agree to it as it would basically hold them hostage to expediting talks in the union's favor.

I do hope when we go into JCBA talks that we can get an expedited timetable much like the APFA has although that comes with risks if it get's to "Binding Arbitration" and your comparisons are UAL and Delta who it seems contract out far more work in the non hubs. That's probably going to wind up being the biggest uphill battle when the time comes?

 

[WeAAsles]

As for what is on the table, the nc has not proposed scope that grandfathers a current snapshot of work into scope. Also, they are focusing on a $500 signing bonus and not retro.
What is disturbing is that it seems a complete shuffling of priorities may be in order as we should vomit if we get more sick time tokens but push the scope buck into joint talks where more work may get killed.
 

If you do come to terms and it's something that the company wants you to sign to get things moving into the next phase it will more than likely have a larger carrot on a stick than a measly $500. I've never been a fan of the "Signing Bonus" as I think it is something that sways the measure of the proposal you have to vote on. People see the quick buck and in desperation latch onto it without factoring it in to the life of the contract.

I know it would be foolish to leave that money on the table but there is a good reason why it's offered.

 

[wings396]

A $500 signing bonus is a bad freakin joke. Please don't bring any crazy crap like this to a membership that has been waiting this long to move ahead.

 

[robbedagain]

the company can take it and stuff it where the sun don't shine...    we endured this long enough    Retro plus scope enhancements protections for all the mainline cities we have now...  plus wage increases  

 

[Black Magic]

It doesn't take a company years to offer $1 more an hour contract.  They can stick it!  Doug Parkers dream has come true for premier airline consolidation, less competition means more $$ for untold profits to come in the future years.  We are in a prime position to hammer down and receive a contract that the industry will reflect.  Stay strong people...

 

[mike33]

It doesn't take a company years to offer $1 more an hour contract.  They can stick it!  Doug Parkers dream has come true for premier airline consolidation, less competition means more $$ for untold profits to come in the future years.  We are in a prime position to hammer down and receive a contract that the industry will reflect.  Stay strong people...

Hey Black Majic. I thinkAH just gave you a negative rating

Bad Bad bad !!

 

[Black Magic]

Hey Black Majic. I thinkAH just gave you a negative rating

Bad Bad bad !!

 
Probably so!!  Those guys know exactly what kind record coin is coming but its a secret for them to know only...or so they think!

 

[ograc]

It's probably not a good idea to share what your NC is aiming for or where they are currently at publicly as it could serve to undermine their continuing efforts during the talks? You would get a range of emotions and comments on these pages and others that the company could wind up trying to exploit and I don't think it would help the process unless you had something to vote on.

As far as retro that should be a given but it isn't always necessarily so. It's something that has to be agreed on during negotiations and probably usually comes near the end of those talks. You cold have stipulations for it in your current CBA's but I doubt the company would agree to it as it would basically hold them hostage to expediting talks in the union's favor.

I do hope when we go into JCBA talks that we can get an expedited timetable much like the APFA has although that comes with risks if it get's to "Binding Arbitration" and your comparisons are UAL and Delta who it seems contract out far more work in the non hubs. That's probably going to wind up being the biggest uphill battle when the time comes?

Sharing the union's proposals would help to build their credibility. There is already a range of emotions, opinions and comments on these pages. The only party undermining efforts at reaching an agreement is the company. I disagree that the union sharing the latest proposals with the membership would give more leverage to the company. Unless those very proposals would be viewed as inferior by the membership. If that were the case; you're right. The best strategy is to keep it secret. When proposals, or any issues for that matter, are shrouded in secrecy it tends to raise suspicion and erode solidarity. Transparency minimizes the spread of misinformation. I think the membership is entitled to know exactly what the NC is proposing. Especially, this late in the game. They are, after all, representing the membership.