2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

Roa, I worked with MF, he wouldn't sign  a card in the beginning and allot of people know this, but now he is in a leadership position, that's why I have issues with him.

That is not relevant to me... I worked PI, and NO BODY signed cards the first time around... many of these NO UNION guys (and girls) went on to become some of the best union members we have in CLT!
 
Besides, as I said, I'm voting individuals... not tickets!

 

[roabilly]

exactly
 
 we need to move on

Move on to what? How shitty the UA agreement is? How crooked the 141 is? How stupid Delaney is? Does any of this help your position in the current Section Six talks?

 

[mike33]

Move on to what? How shitty the UA agreement is? How crooked the 141 is? How stupid Delaney is? Does any of this help your position in the current Section Six talks?

Move on out of the education thing. Everything at UA is a done deal. It sucks but it is over as far as I'm concerned. Nelson can proclaim himself president for all i care. He repeats and repeats and repeats. Thats how he communicates. Do i agree with him? Hell no.......... My wrath comes when i see some CBA in writing. His wrath comes in every paragraph he writes. We all know that. My comment pertained to the education he proclaims.  It really doesn't matter who is more educated for me. Street smarts and OJT are what counts in my opinion. We have each other to educate each other. I have worked in this business for this side of 40 years. I don't need some Masters degree to show me how this business runs. I can read. Problem is most don't want to sit and read and digest information. They only want their 28$ every 2 weeks to tell them its ok. 
 
  Good luck with that!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Move on out of the education thing. Everything at UA is a done deal. It sucks but it is over as far as I'm concerned. Nelson can proclaim himself president for all i care. He repeats and repeats and repeats. Thats how he communicates. Do i agree with him? Hell no.......... My wrath comes when i see some CBA in writing. His wrath comes in every paragraph he writes. We all know that. My comment pertained to the education he proclaims.  It really doesn't matter who is more educated for me. Street smarts and OJT are what counts in my opinion. We have each other to educate each other. I have worked in this business for this side of 40 years. I don't need some Masters degree to show me how this business runs. I can read. Problem is most don't want to sit and read and digest information. They only want their 28$ every 2 weeks to tell them its ok. 
 
  Good luck with that!

Bingo!
Why do people presume education must always be in the form of a college degree? Street smarts, continually educating yourself thru researching things is all about self motivation and determination to be the very best negotiator or grievance debator one can be. Most importantly keeping your feet to the ground you came from. Experience is good provided someone was already getting paid by you and has a proven successful record. Experience for tenure purposes or experience negotiating or endorsing ridiculous contracts is the sorta experience that isnt needed to repeat.

 

[WeAAsles]

Other unions, particularly the unions at US Airways, were, in many ways, left behind.
 
The pitfalls of a strategy that was, in some respects, brilliant, were on full display last week. On Thursday, members of US Airways' largest union, the International Association of Machinists, staged demonstrations at five airports. On Friday, pilots at American Eagle, American's regional partner, overwhelmingly rejected a contract proposal.

Additionally, US Airways dispatchers, an often overlooked group, said they now make 25% less than their counterparts at American who will eventually be working by their sides since US Airways dispatchers face the shutdown of US Airways' operations control center in Pittsburgh, scheduled to take place by mid-2016. Dispatchers who want to move have been offered jobs in Dallas.


http://www.thestreet.com/story/12561691/1/three-unions-say-american-airlines-merger-gains-passed-them-by.html

 

[roabilly]

Bingo!
Why do people presume education must always be in the form of a college degree? Street smarts, continually educating yourself thru researching things is all about self motivation and determination to be the very best negotiator or grievance debator one can be. Most importantly keeping your feet to the ground you came from. Experience is good provided someone was already getting paid by you and has a proven successful record. Experience for tenure purposes or experience negotiating or endorsing ridiculous contracts is the sorta experience that isnt needed to repeat.

Hmmm... you have sure changed in the last few years... Now, College isn't important, especially since you need to say that to keep everyone on your side!
 
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Posted by Tim Nelson on 16 September 2011 - 08:52 AM in US Airways
 "Negotiations: I don't believe any AGC's really understand contract language as well as they should. Doesn't mean they are stupid, just means that most don't have even a college degree. We have to acknowledge that and make sure they and the membership have the necessary resources. As I said, I have a masters education and I understand language but not nearly as good as someone who has a law degree. In negotiations, there should be a professional. Bottom line. THe membership pays good money and there should be a professional. Being an educated man, I realize that our members are better off with an in house professional being at the side of the negotiations team or arbitration hearing, and that our membership needs that better allocation of resources. Guess what? IAM 141 spent 6 figures making phone calls to outside attorneys who billed us "Off the charts" so it's not like this would be an additional cost. Kindly review the LM2 reports. "Experienced" In house labor attorneys usually run a buck twenty or as much as a buck fifty. We need to find that money by dumping salary levels and reuducing the unnecessary spending of having two district offices and a huge building that is half empty. There are tons and tons of thousands of dollars that are being pissed away because nobody wants to streamline since it isn't their money"
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Posted by Tim Nelson on 19 February 2012 - 02:08 PM in US Airways
"I have a Masters education but that only makes me more aware that I need to surround myself with professionals IN THE NEGOTIATIONS AND ARBITRATIONS. It's not a matter of just "My agc's are bigger and better than your AGC"s", it's a matter of reallocating resources and cleaning up the house by making it more professional. Cripes, is that so hard for you to understand that our members are paying dues and having their dues increased with no pay raises....isn't the least we can do is take their millions of dollars and hire professionals? Does any of this make sense? And FWIW: hiring our own attorney will save us about $50,000 a year in attorney cost. I know that sounds odd but that's how much we have to streamline our district, when we can actually hire an attorney and save thousands of dollars, then you know something is wrong. Will there be some things that will have to be cut? Yes, like the sports tickets, executive suites, limo rides and other officer perks for having a high priced outside law firm."
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Tim, where did you obtain your Maters Degree... and what was it in specifically?

 

[roabilly]

Move on out of the education thing. Everything at UA is a done deal. It sucks but it is over as far as I'm concerned. Nelson can proclaim himself president for all i care. He repeats and repeats and repeats. Thats how he communicates. Do i agree with him? Hell no.......... My wrath comes when i see some CBA in writing. His wrath comes in every paragraph he writes. We all know that. My comment pertained to the education he proclaims.  It really doesn't matter who is more educated for me. Street smarts and OJT are what counts in my opinion. We have each other to educate each other. I have worked in this business for this side of 40 years. I don't need some Masters degree to show me how this business runs. I can read. Problem is most don't want to sit and read and digest information. They only want their 28$ every 2 weeks to tell them its ok. 
 
  Good luck with that!

I was publicly humiliated... and told that I was being "intellectually dishonest" in 2011 for following the same argument you are making right-now regarding education, I think I have the right to ask a candidate about their education moving forward...

 

[roabilly]

Other unions, particularly the unions at US Airways, were, in many ways, left behind.
 
The pitfalls of a strategy that was, in some respects, brilliant, were on full display last week. On Thursday, members of US Airways' largest union, the International Association of Machinists, staged demonstrations at five airports. On Friday, pilots at American Eagle, American's regional partner, overwhelmingly rejected a contract proposal.

Additionally, US Airways dispatchers, an often overlooked group, said they now make 25% less than their counterparts at American who will eventually be working by their sides since US Airways dispatchers face the shutdown of US Airways' operations control center in Pittsburgh, scheduled to take place by mid-2016. Dispatchers who want to move have been offered [SIZE=100%]jobs[/SIZE] in Dallas.


http://www.thestreet.com/story/12561691/1/three-unions-say-american-airlines-merger-gains-passed-them-by.html

If you will notice... in the article DP is praised by Wall Street for his strategy. He knew full well what he would accomplish, and that is a Wall Street approval, along with deep resent and division on the US Labor side! I think he learned this strategy with the Pilot groups (East and West) which have stayed divided for eight years, saving the Company tens, if not hundreds of millions!
 
What I read in this forum daily, is frustrations and anger, along with a complete distrust of the Union. Of course, the flames are fanned by a certain poster that perpetuates the ideology that it’s the IAM, and NOT the Company at fault!
 
All I see is exactly what the Company wants... and that’s hatred, distrust, and anger directed toward the IAM at the most critical time in Fleet history!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hmmm... you have sure changed in the last few years... Now, College isn't important, especially since you need to say that to keep everyone on your side!
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Posted by Tim Nelson on 16 September 2011 - 08:52 AM in US Airways
 "Negotiations: I don't believe any AGC's really understand contract language as well as they should. Doesn't mean they are stupid, just means that most don't have even a college degree. We have to acknowledge that and make sure they and the membership have the necessary resources. As I said, I have a masters education and I understand language but not nearly as good as someone who has a law degree. In negotiations, there should be a professional. Bottom line. THe membership pays good money and there should be a professional. Being an educated man, I realize that our members are better off with an in house professional being at the side of the negotiations team or arbitration hearing, and that our membership needs that better allocation of resources. Guess what? IAM 141 spent 6 figures making phone calls to outside attorneys who billed us "Off the charts" so it's not like this would be an additional cost. Kindly review the LM2 reports. "Experienced" In house labor attorneys usually run a buck twenty or as much as a buck fifty. We need to find that money by dumping salary levels and reuducing the unnecessary spending of having two district offices and a huge building that is half empty. There are tons and tons of thousands of dollars that are being pissed away because nobody wants to streamline since it isn't their money"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Tim Nelson on 19 February 2012 - 02:08 PM in US Airways
"I have a Masters education but that only makes me more aware that I need to surround myself with professionals IN THE NEGOTIATIONS AND ARBITRATIONS. It's not a matter of just "My agc's are bigger and better than your AGC"s", it's a matter of reallocating resources and cleaning up the house by making it more professional. Cripes, is that so hard for you to understand that our members are paying dues and having their dues increased with no pay raises....isn't the least we can do is take their millions of dollars and hire professionals? Does any of this make sense? And FWIW: hiring our own attorney will save us about $50,000 a year in attorney cost. I know that sounds odd but that's how much we have to streamline our district, when we can actually hire an attorney and save thousands of dollars, then you know something is wrong. Will there be some things that will have to be cut? Yes, like the sports tickets, executive suites, limo rides and other officer perks for having a high priced outside law firm."
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Tim, where did you obtain your Maters Degree... and what was it in specifically?

Of course college is important. Yes, I have a masters education.  Nobody is changing anything. But I'm not going to subject myself to ridiculousness by you or anyone in this campaign.  My specific campaign is going to center on work at hand.  If you want to question my education then you are free to do so.  Carry on.

 

[WeAAsles]

If you will notice... in the article DP is praised by Wall Street for his strategy. He knew full well what he would accomplish, and that is Wall Street approval along with deep resent, and division on the US Labor side. What I read in this forum daily, is frustrations and anger, along with distrust of the Union. Of course, the flames are fanned by a certain poster that perpetuates the ideology that it’s the IAM, and NOT the Company at fault!
 
All I see is exactly what the Company wants... and that’s hatred and anger directed toward the IAM at the most critical time in Fleet history!

The Street is praising DP's strategy of approaching AA's Unions and selling us on the idea that merging would create gains and provide a more stable foundation that we can all benefit from. Actually one of our unions approached them to sell the idea and afterwards networked with each other on seeing if this was a more viable option than AA's "Standalone, Cornerstone" plan. The article gives DP too much credit as it was a collaborative affair.

That is now where he is dropping the ball in regards to working with you guys and the Dispatchers. He thinks that whether the situations are different or not you will just go along and trust him that gains are coming your way without offering you an olive branch as proof. As if all the bad blood can be set aside in one fell swoop.

Remember DP and his team are also selling the idea to WS that this merger will be the most successful thing they've ever seen. They made huge promises that they need to live up to. They even to show WS faith restricted much of their compensation to meeting those metrics and goals. "Keep in mind that they want to get paid just like us"

What they should do is offer you guy's the "Pay Parity" and tie it to the Association having to bargain on a timeline much like the APFA has done. All other issues though should be put on hold until there is a JCBA. And tie it all to the "Association must" continue forward with the original intentions of that agreement or all gains revert to square one. That would effectively negate the last possibility that there could be any labor issues in the future and keep the process moving.

"SCOPE" is going to be a very hard issue in those JCBA talks possibly, depending on staffing levels at UAL and DAL? Creative solutions outside the norm may have to be applied that neither side may be completely satisfied with?

But to do any of that "BOTH" sides have to do the hardest thing of all. Forget the past and move forward from today on. We're in an entirely different dynamic and landscape now and the past could be just that if people are willing?

 

[Tim Nelson]

If you will notice... in the article DP is praised by Wall Street for his strategy. He knew full well what he would accomplish, and that is a Wall Street approval, along with deep resent and division on the US Labor side! I think he learned this strategy with the Pilot groups (East and West) which have stayed divided for eight years, saving the Company tens, if not hundreds of millions!
 
What I read in this forum daily, is frustrations and anger, along with a complete distrust of the Union. Of course, the flames are fanned by a certain poster that perpetuates the ideology that it’s the IAM, and NOT the Company at fault!
 
All I see is exactly what the Company wants... and that’s hatred, distrust, and anger directed toward the IAM at the most critical time in Fleet history!

What DP wants is the same thing that his competitors have due to Delaney's team.  He didn't have this problem with 70,000 other employees including our stews and pilots.  You keep BSing folks and lying to everyone about United but why wouldn't AH and JG want the same 'pre joint' relationship that Delaney had with United?  You have refused to answer my question, Why did your boys walk out of stand alone talks at United and cut a deal with management to go into joint talks with $0?   Also, although you have continuously told everyone that AH isn't concerned with the United agreement and that the labor situation at AH's competitor doesn't apply, the reality is that AH is only asking for the same treatment and he knows that after the political election, your boys will roll right into joint talks with $0 just like they did at United, if they are lucky enough to win the election.   
 
Why wouldn't AH want your team to roll right into joint talks after elections like they did at United?  Worst part is that you are playing with the lives and families of 5,800 people and you have no skin in the game other than firing up ridiculous personal attacks.  Many on this board have even nicely told you to stop it.  But you can't help yourself.  Hopefully, we get change in June and we can salvage something before joint talks where we would have to wait another 3-5 years of getting NO PAY RAISE.  But again, that don't affect you and tons of other detractors on this board who aren't even IAM US AIRWAYS fleet service members but have blitzed this board for whatever reason.

 

[WeAAsles]

Of course college is important. Yes, I have a masters education.  Nobody is changing anything. But I'm not going to subject myself to ridiculousness by you or anyone in this campaign.  My specific campaign is going to center on work at hand.  If you want to question my education then you are free to do so.  Carry on.

Tim if you are going to run a campaign and pronounce that a part of that campaign is an education level that may set you apart from those you are running against, you must be prepared when asked to elaborate further as to what that education consists of and how it will serve those who's vote you are trying to court.

Let's say that your Masters is in Business? Well of course that could make you extremely viable as a candidate as those would be expertise that could be utilized in talks with the company. Possibly you have a Masters in Labor relations? That too would be very beneficial to the membership at large.

You brought up your education as a part of your candidacy and you absolutely should be called upon to elaborate further on what that education is.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim if you are going to run a campaign and pronounce that a part of that campaign is an education level that may set you apart from those you are running against, you must be prepared when asked to elaborate further as to what that education consists of and how it will serve those who's vote you are trying to court.

Let's say that your Masters is in Business? Well of course that could make you extremely viable as a candidate as those would be expertise that could be utilized in talks with the company. Possibly you have a Masters in Labor relations? That too would be very beneficial to the membership at large.

You brought up your education as a part of your candidacy and you absolutely should be called upon to elaborate further on what that education is.

I put up my bio on the link that is below every post of mine, it clearly gives a window into my personal life. Says that I have 3 children, and a masters education and even gives the proficiency.  Roabilly is just being ridiculous.  Ridiculous because I haven't made a campaign issue about my personal life, including my personal education experiences.   Some folks have been blessed with enough time and money to pursue formal education.  Some have received their education from their life experiences and how they were raised.  Some have the best of both worlds.    There are candidates that I support 100% on my team that have no formal education but have a wealth of integrity that won't allow them to make some of the same decisions that our opponents have made.  And they have a wealth of determination that they are eager to grow and learn even after they get elected, if so blessed.  
 
Roabilly is making a issue of my personal life because they have no other option since the team he supports hasn't nothing to show for 6 years of futility.  OTOH,  when the U4C team starts their campaign, we don't have to attack personalhoods, we will point to the scoreboard and show clearly that over the past 6 years,  that feeling everyone has in their gut about not getting anything for their dues....is real and why.  No sir, we won't have to rely on a campaign about where someone went to high school, college, or graduate school. 

 

[WeAAsles]

But again, that don't affect you and tons of other detractors on this board who aren't even IAM US AIRWAYS fleet service members but have blitzed this board for whatever reason.

 

Tim to say that others who are participating on this board are not affected by the decisions you and the IAM "now" make in the future is being disingenuous on your part. My group is absolutely affected by whatever outcome you have in your contract talks and whoever is politically in charge through the Association.

First of course we have the "Industry Averaging" at the end of 2015 which if your group remains static in wages will prevent us from seeing any more that the 2.1% raise in our CBA. Second of course is the JCBA talks which every single day that we are not engaged in those talks could be a wasted opportunity for both groups moving forward.

Sorry at times you may not want us here but we now both live under the same roof and eventually our food will be in the same refrigerator. Get used to it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Back to US AIRWAYS......what's up with the lanyards?  Why arm bands for the new company?  Arm bands suck, fall apart, are very cheap and stretch out when around a parka for those in colder climates, only to be too loose fitting in the summer.  Why not lanyards?