2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

Thank you T5.

That response shows a lot of credibility. Although the contract has many horrible things in it depending on where you work and what your seniority is, do you think it also has some good items as well? Do you buy into the notion that Tin Nelson is selling about a station eventually being 80% staffed with PTers? 

Not selling anything.  Just pointing to the contract.  Will management create a sorta UPS job where 80% are part time?  We aren't really sure are we?  Can it?  Absolutely.   And that is my point, there is no protection preventing management from making 80% part time.  IMO, yes, management will take full advantage and make thousands more part time. Others can differ on that.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, compliance going into the merger seems to be what station management has been told.  Maybe things loosen up and the rush lanyard can be overlooked as it was prior.  But for now, compliance is what management has expressed.

They don't normally hassle me too much. But then again I have a tendency of standing up for myself quite well. I won't make a huge issue out of silly things like this but I do like to have my fun.

 

[WeAAsles]

Depends.
The company is underperforming right now and has a 2 billion dollar cost savings plan. Anything is possible. The company probably want a 60-40 mix of PT to FT. But ORD is way out of "whack" so to speak where they have the most FT by far in any hub. IIRC it is about 70-30 FT to PT. Someone who actually works there can correct me on this. The BK UA agreement had PT caps, but DEN got hit hard. Now it is unlimited PT. (My hub is probably now around 55-45 FT to PT with the recent reductions.) By contracts end, after the 45 is gone, depends on what happens, they will go after Tier 2 cities. IMHO, that's why I'm hoping you guys get a better agreement than us, to avoid further damage to Tier 2 and the hubs. It also depends on doing the negotiating and how much they will fight. And if the economy can get better where the contractors can get paid more money. And keep the Express operations in the hubs (where sCO traditionally kept it in house).

A lot of factors come into play, but with this top heavy management (it seems like they are only hiring management every day) who knows........

Thanks again T5:

I'd love to touch some more on this with you but I have to leave for work. Your insight is what I've been looking for and I'm glad that you're contributing.

 

[cltrat]

by what I read on T5's post the union is doing plenty to turn people against them without any perceived help from Nelson.Then people like jet job and Bluto further alienate the membership.

 

[rockit2]

by what I read on T5's post the union is doing plenty to turn people against them without any perceived help from Nelson.Then people like jet job and Bluto further alienate the membership.

I agree 100%, I am glad I'm not working under the UA cba. 141 crushed their own members

 

[robbedagain]

i agree there..    i also think that's a big part of the reason our NC team has seen that and they are not backing off of where their at now  and they pretty much made clear to the NMB they will not budge from their position  and neither will the donkeys...      

 

[Tim Nelson]

i agree there..    i also think that's a big part of the reason our NC team has seen that and they are not backing off of where their at now  and they pretty much made clear to the NMB they will not budge from their position  and neither will the donkeys...

their present position is the exact pre joint contract position at united when they played politics and talked tough but ended up polarizing talks and walking away from 12% pay boost, medical, and job security.

Not surprisingly, it is looking more and more like the same result will happen at usairways. AH doesnt seem to mind due to the inevitable conclusion of stand alone talks as Team Delaney already has a signeddeal to only negotiate "until" single carrier which wont possibly be anytime after september assuming even a built in delay resolution process.

I keep asking roabilly what the plan B is if there is no release? Deaf ears so ask yourself why?

Also ask yourself why AH keeps offering less and less as we continue to approach timelines.

Are you prepared to walk into joint talks with $0 then spend another 5 years with $0???

This nc team has managed to polarize everything just like at united. It isnt that management at ua and us have a vendetta against the iam but rather you have Team Delaney putting politics above the membership

 

[roabilly]

Amazing... let me get this right...
 
The Company screws you out of 12 years of wages, and returns you to a 1990’s pay scale with Corporate Bankruptcies...
 
The Company closes many smaller stations under the Bankruptcy/Abrogation agreement...
 
The Company drags out section 6 negotiations out for over four years keeping you locked into Bankruptcy Wages...
 
The Company makes a deal with the TWU behind your backs offering them better wages in return for cooperation...
 
The Company offers you virtually nothing just in the last few weeks... and proclaims negotiations over...
 
The Company pushes your most recent negotiations to the point of a release and a possible strike...
 
And for all this pain...you guys are ready to form a posse, hunt down, and publicly execute two fictional characters named “Bluto” and “Jet Job”?!
The friggin’ Company has to laughing all the way to the bank! What a farce!

 

[WeAAsles]

Amazing... let me get this right...
 
The Company screws you out of 12 years of wages, and returns you to a 1990’s pay scale with Corporate Bankruptcies...
 
The Company closes many smaller stations under the Bankruptcy/Abrogation agreement...
 
The Company drags out section 6 negotiations out for over four years keeping you locked into Bankruptcy Wages...
 
The Company makes a deal with the TWU behind your backs offering them better wages in return for cooperation...
 
The Company offers you virtually nothing just in the last few weeks... and proclaims negotiations over...
 
The Company pushes your most recent negotiations to the point of a release and a possible strike...
 
And for all this pain...you guys are ready to form a posse, hunt down, and publicly execute two fictional characters named “Bluto” and “Jet Job”?!
The friggin’ Company has to laughing all the way to the bank! What a farce!

I like this one. Yep it's all the negotiators fault. Not the BANKRUPTCIES and those pesky laws put in place to neuter us. Nope. It's a couple of guys who ramrodded the entire thing down the ENTIRE industries throat.

Oh yea those company reps laugh at us when we act this way. You can bet your booty on that one. Smarten up people.

 

[737823]

Amazing... let me get this right...
 
The Company screws you out of 12 years of wages, and returns you to a 1990’s pay scale with Corporate Bankruptcies...
 
The Company closes many smaller stations under the Bankruptcy/Abrogation agreement...
 
The Company drags out section 6 negotiations out for over four years keeping you locked into Bankruptcy Wages...
 
The Company makes a deal with the TWU behind your backs offering them better wages in return for cooperation...
 
The Company offers you virtually nothing just in the last few weeks... and proclaims negotiations over...
 
The Company pushes your most recent negotiations to the point of a release and a possible strike...
 
And for all this pain...you guys are ready to form a posse, hunt down, and publicly execute two fictional characters named “Bluto” and “Jet Job”?!
The friggin’ Company has to laughing all the way to the bank! What a farce!

Everyone knows who BLUTO is

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

I like this one. Yep it's all the negotiators fault. Not the BANKRUPTCIES and those pesky laws put in place to neuter us. Nope. It's a couple of guys who ramrodded the entire thing down the ENTIRE industries throat.
Oh yea those company reps laugh at us when we act this way. You can bet your booty on that one. Smarten up people.

When you and our nc keep saying thiese negotiations are about bankruptcy, thats just ridiculous.

The reality of the situation is that our nc shut off any idea of negotiating a fair contract when it gave the company an ultimatum and a proposal that management had to refuse in the context of a first bite.

I dont have any problem with asking for a 15% pay raise, 12 more paid days off per year, increasing retirement 20%, and doubling up iron clad scope...but to do so and tell the company "take it or leave it" has forced the company to play the same game and take previous offers off the table.

Why? Because team delaney has decided to put politics over the membership by issuing ultimatums that every employee would love to have including me.

The united employees loved hearing how delaney demanded $27 but management wasnt in the mood for humor and forced delaneys pre joint talk negotiations into the trash.

Mike33 can bust on me for repeating myself but i repeat this because few are listening to the reality. Because of the timetable and polarized verbage, we may be forced to strike just to chase whatever remaining wage can still be had.

 

[Tim Nelson]

We can say with certainty that a union will file single carrier in less than 70 days or that an arbitrator will resolve any single carrier dispute by july 9. To say otherwise means that you must believe that the twu will purposely violate its contract and that an atbitrator will pyrposely violate the terms of his contract. Never mind that the iam already told all of you that it will negotiate stand alone "until" a single carrier.

Everything else is all talk. Things on paper are already signed but if you want to believe that the nc is being honest by informing you that it has AH locked in stand alone talks indefinately, then i guess i cant stop nobody from believing that. All i can point to are the signed contracts and official statements that will wrap up stand alone talks by summer, one way or another.

 

[pjirish317]

their present position is the exact pre joint contract position at united when they played politics and talked tough but ended up polarizing talks and walking away from 12% pay boost, medical, and job security.

Not surprisingly, it is looking more and more like the same result will happen at usairways. AH doesnt seem to mind due to the inevitable conclusion of stand alone talks as Team Delaney already has a signeddeal to only negotiate "until" single carrier which wont possibly be anytime after september assuming even a built in delay resolution process.

I keep asking roabilly what the plan B is if there is no release? Deaf ears so ask yourself why?

Also ask yourself why AH keeps offering less and less as we continue to approach timelines.

Are you prepared to walk into joint talks with $0 then spend another 5 years with $0???

This nc team has managed to polarize everything just like at united. It isnt that management at ua and us have a vendetta against the iam but rather you have Team Delaney putting politics above the membership

Any proof of this alleged signed deal? Can you provide any written proof?

 

[mike33]

We can say with certainty that a union will file single carrier in less than 70 days or that an arbitrator will resolve any single carrier dispute by july 9. To say otherwise means that you must believe that the twu will purposely violate its contract and that an atbitrator will pyrposely violate the terms of his contract. Never mind that the iam already told all of you that it will negotiate stand alone "until" a single carrier.

Everything else is all talk. Things on paper are already signed but if you want to believe that the nc is being honest by informing you that it has AH locked in stand alone talks indefinately, then i guess i cant stop nobody from believing that. All i can point to are the signed contracts and official statements that will wrap up stand alone talks by summer, one way or another.

 
  How can you say that it is " So Matter of Fact "..  I told you on this board that from the horses mouth. The ASSOCIATION files. The lawyers for both TWU and IAM i've been told have looked at all of this. So tell me whom i should believe?...... You or Them. !   That is an honest question and deserves an honest answer. Not a tangent

 

[pjirish317]

Mike,
 
You will not get a straight answer from Tim. He will only reply because "I" know the law, because "I" know how it works, Because "I" told you guys already what "IS" going to happen. Who is playing politics here. It all about what Tim can deliver, and so far he aint delivered crap. Heck he is even unwilling to work for us by joining the NC, taking CB's seat on the NC. Why, because he hates delaney, and he doesn't want to have everybody see that he can't deliver what he promises. But then it will not be his fault though, it will be somebody else's fault. Delaney will get the blame because he can't deliver on his promises.