2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

I put up my bio on the link that is below every post of mine, it clearly gives a window into my personal life. Says that I have 3 children, and a masters education and even gives the proficiency.  Roabilly is just being ridiculous.  Ridiculous because I haven't made a campaign issue about my personal life, including my personal education experiences.   Some folks have been blessed with enough time and money to pursue formal education.  Some have received their education from their life experiences and how they were raised.  Some have the best of both worlds.    There are candidates that I support 100% on my team that have no formal education but have a wealth of integrity that won't allow them to make some of the same decisions that our opponents have made.  And they have a wealth of determination that they are eager to grow and learn even after they get elected, if so blessed.  
 

"I have a Master's level education with proficiency in contemporary culture"

Honestly Tim your bio is extremely vague in describing what your qualifications are and does not list what that Masters degree is. Now just to get to a Masters degree means you have to take multiple courses and I give you credit for that. But personally I would have posted that information even if it was outside the realm of issues I might be dealing with should the members decide to elect me.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim to say that others who are participating on this board are not affected by the decisions you and the IAM "now" make in the future is being disingenuous on your part. My group is absolutely affected by whatever outcome you have in your contract talks and whoever is politically in charge through the Association.

First of course we have the "Industry Averaging" at the end of 2015 which if your group remains static in wages will prevent us from seeing any more that the 2.1% raise in our CBA. Second of course is the JCBA talks which every single day that we are not engaged in those talks could be a wasted opportunity for both groups moving forward.

Sorry at times you may not want us here but we now both live under the same roof and eventually our food will be in the same refrigerator. Get used to it.

I wasn't referring to you or other TWU members, sorry.  Detractors, as in Jet job or others who just come on this board and offer nothing, don't answer questions, and just fire bomb with personal attacks.

 

[cltrat]

we were offered both here

 

[WeAAsles]

I wasn't referring to you or other TWU members, sorry.  Detractors, as in Jet job or others who just come on this board and offer nothing, don't answer questions, and just fire bomb with personal attacks.

No problem. Is Jet Job a Usair member or a member of the IAM? And you do have a close affinity with Josh who also then should be discredited under your assessment don't you think? He is also not directly affected by situations within your group.

 

[AANOTOK]

I wasn't referring to you or other TWU members, sorry.  Detractors, as in Jet job or others who just come on this board and offer nothing, don't answer questions, and just fire bomb with personal attacks.

Do you support Josh and his littering of trash on this board??

 

[WeAAsles]

Back to US AIRWAYS......what's up with the lanyards?  Why arm bands for the new company?  Arm bands suck, fall apart, are very cheap and stretch out when around a parka for those in colder climates, only to be too loose fitting in the summer.  Why not lanyards?

Don't feel so bad. It's here in MIA as well. Conformity seems to be the order of the day to those now in charge. I'll personally keep wearing my "RUSH" lanyard thank you. That's the band RUSH not Limburger.

 

[T5towbar]

Thank you Jet Job. Can you enlighten the readers on this thread with more information regarding the circumstances that encompass the existence of that UAL contract?

I'm basically trying to get past all the spin and hyperbole surrounding it and get to the meat and potatoes as they say.

Because people like Jet Job come into THIS particular forum and spout off how great the UA Agreement is. There is no spin and hyperbole. They promoted this turd. People bought it. And now want you guys to accept a substandard contract.

You asked about the CLE situation: CLE was the smallest hub (from CO) in the system. But it is relatively senior. Everybody knew it was going to be broken up eventually, at least to a Tier 2 city like BOS; JFK; etc. Management claimed that it was a lossmaker and FAR 117 sped things up. Now 435 or so members are in limbo right now. Most are senior and should be able to transfer or bump. (SFO and ORD are the most junior stations in the system) Since the first 6 stations (and now 15 more) are/were being cut, these people were supposed to either go into the system first. But now that CLE has been thrown into the mix, nobody is moving or transferring yet. (unless they are awarded something) IMHO, the company doesn't want to pay for all of these moves and won't find homes for everybody. LOA #6 was designed to address the split operation situation that is occurring in cities like MCO; PHX; etc where there is a contractor doing M/L flights to sCO hubs while UA employees doing flights to ORD; DEN; IAD; etc. Getting rid of DGS and the likes can help. But since the company is dragging their feet, that's not happening. People want to willingly transfer can't, because all of this mess has to be settled first. All of this could have been avoided by giving the people who wanted out a better severance package. Instead of the convoluted tiered IAM package. Ramp was at a disadvantage of meeting any tiers because you have to remember that most of the smaller stations are cross-utilitized. So some of the people classified themselves as PCE instead of RSE (ramp). Spending more money on a straight-forward package could have saved a lot of grief. And got more than enough numbers for people who wanted out.

There is more than what people is telling you on this forum. I am living this contract right now.

They still can't answer about the lie of LOA #5. They won't tell you why........... But it did it's damage!
There is plenty of downgrading throughout the system. Over 300 downgrades in my hub alone. (along with 150 furloughs - this is BEFORE and AFTER this contract signing within a 9 month span)

All I'm saying is look objectively and don't buy into the BS.

 

[roabilly]

Nelson,
 
You accuse the IAM Leadership of hiding the facts, ambiguity, and plain dishonesty (Lies), yet... you remain ambiguous regarding full disclosure on your education. Do you really think people will trust you for not being forthcoming on this! Almost 100% of your posts are anti-IAM, very little is ever mentioned by you regarding the real adversary. Be honest, you are here to turn the group against the Union!
 
What University did you attend?

 

[WeAAsles]

Because people like Jet Job come into THIS particular forum and spout off how great the UA Agreement is. There is no spin and hyperbole. They promoted this turd. People bought it. And now want you guys to accept a substandard contract.

You asked about the CLE situation: CLE was the smallest hub (from CO) in the system. But it is relatively senior. Everybody knew it was going to be broken up eventually, at least to a Tier 2 city like BOS; JFK; etc. Management claimed that it was a lossmaker and FAR 117 sped things up. Now 435 or so members are in limbo right now. Most are senior and should be able to transfer or bump. (SFO and ORD are the most junior stations in the system) Since the first 6 stations (and now 15 more) are/were being cut, these people were supposed to either go into the system first. But now that CLE has been thrown into the mix, nobody is moving or transferring yet. (unless they are awarded something) IMHO, the company doesn't want to pay for all of these moves and won't find homes for everybody. LOA #6 was designed to address the split operation situation that is occurring in cities like MCO; PHX; etc where there is a contractor doing M/L flights to sCO hubs while UA employees doing flights to ORD; DEN; IAD; etc. Getting rid of DGS and the likes can help. But since the company is dragging their feet, that's not happening. People want to willingly transfer can't, because all of this mess has to be settled first. All of this could have been avoided by giving the people who wanted out a better severance package. Instead of the convoluted tiered IAM package. Ramp was at a disadvantage of meeting any tiers because you have to remember that most of the smaller stations are cross-utilitized. So some of the people classified themselves as PCE instead of RSE (ramp). Spending more money on a straight-forward package could have saved a lot of grief. And got more than enough numbers for people who wanted out.

There is more than what people is telling you on this forum. I am living this contract right now.

They still can't answer about the lie of LOA #5. They won't tell you why........... But it did it's damage!
There is plenty of downgrading throughout the system. Over 300 downgrades in my hub alone. (along with 150 furloughs - this is BEFORE and AFTER this contract signing within a 9 month span)

All I'm saying is look objectively and don't buy into the BS.

Thanks. That's why I'm asking so many questions. I don't buy into anyone's personal slant on things as usually the truth is somewhere down the middle.

I'm still wondering if the former CO employees are getting the shortest end of the stick and if that's because they didn't have a Union or a prior CBA to work from? Under the RLA contracts don't expire, they only become ammendable. But that's if you had a contract in the first place?

 

[T5towbar]

Thanks. That's why I'm asking so many questions. I don't buy into anyone's personal slant on things as usually the truth is somewhere down the middle.

I'm still wondering if the former CO employees are getting the shortest end of the stick and if that's because they didn't have a Union or a prior CBA to work from? Under the RLA contracts don't expire, they only become ammendable. But that's if you had a contract in the first place?

No.
Both sides are getting the shaft on this deal. Doesn't matter if you are sCO or sUA. Most of the smaller stations have more legacy United employees who are very senior. We at sCO took our hit on the loss of Cargo. But many of them came on the ramp. In IAH (and a few other places) the company found homes for these people without furloughing people. In my hub, that wan't the case. Junior employees (5 years or less) were sent to the street, unless you went to SFO (on your own dime) to get FT. You could have went to BWI, or PHL, and get bumped to the street again. I know a few guys who went to SFO to get full time, and are doing quite well.

Bottom line, it didn't matter.

 

[WeAAsles]

No.
Both sides are getting the shaft on this deal. Doesn't matter if you are sCO or sUA. Most of the smaller stations have more legacy United employees who are very senior. We at sCO took our hit on the loss of Cargo. But many of them came on the ramp. In IAH (and a few other places) the company found homes for these people without furloughing people. In my hub, that wan't the case. Junior employees (5 years or less) were sent to the street, unless you went to SFO (on your own dime) to get FT. You could have went to BWI, or PHL, and get bumped to the street again. I know a few guys who went to SFO to get full time, and are doing quite well.

Bottom line, it didn't matter.

Thank you T5.

That response shows a lot of credibility. Although the contract has many horrible things in it depending on where you work and what your seniority is, do you think it also has some good items as well? Do you buy into the notion that Tin Nelson is selling about a station eventually being 80% staffed with PTers? 

 

[T5towbar]

Thank you T5.

That response shows a lot of credibility. Although the contract has many horrible things in it depending on where you work and what your seniority is, do you think it also has some good items as well? Do you buy into the notion that Tin Nelson is selling about a station eventually being 80% staffed with PTers?

Depends.
The company is underperforming right now and has a 2 billion dollar cost savings plan. Anything is possible. The company probably want a 60-40 mix of PT to FT. But ORD is way out of "whack" so to speak where they have the most FT by far in any hub. IIRC it is about 70-30 FT to PT. Someone who actually works there can correct me on this. The BK UA agreement had PT caps, but DEN got hit hard. Now it is unlimited PT. (My hub is probably now around 55-45 FT to PT with the recent reductions.) By contracts end, after the 45 is gone, depends on what happens, they will go after Tier 2 cities. IMHO, that's why I'm hoping you guys get a better agreement than us, to avoid further damage to Tier 2 and the hubs. It also depends on doing the negotiating and how much they will fight. And if the economy can get better where the contractors can get paid more money. And keep the Express operations in the hubs (where sCO traditionally kept it in house).

A lot of factors come into play, but with this top heavy management (it seems like they are only hiring management every day) who knows........

 

[737823]

Depends.
The company is underperforming right now and has a 2 billion dollar cost savings plan. Anything is possible. The company probably want a 60-40 mix of PT to FT. But ORD is way out of "whack" so to speak where they have the most FT by far in any hub. IIRC it is about 70-30 FT to PT. Someone who actually works there can correct me on this. The BK UA agreement had PT caps, but DEN got hit hard. Now it is unlimited PT. (My hub is probably now around 55-45 FT to PT with the recent reductions.) By contracts end, after the 45 is gone, depends on what happens, they will go after Tier 2 cities. IMHO, that's why I'm hoping you guys get a better agreement than us, to avoid further damage to Tier 2 and the hubs. It also depends on doing the negotiating and how much they will fight. And if the economy can get better where the contractors can get paid more money. And keep the Express operations in the hubs (where sCO traditionally kept it in house).

A lot of factors come into play, but with this top heavy management (it seems like they are only hiring management every day) who knows........

Indeed, but barring any new agreement through section 6, time bomb would allow them to be outsourced so unless you guys get an agreement quickly that includes expanded protection (unlikely) more stations will be gone.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Do you support Josh and his littering of trash on this board??

I support everyone having the right to post but I disagree with much of what Josh says. Much like Jet job or 700 or Roabilly.  I also suspect that we are talking to AH under a alias handle. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Don't feel so bad. It's here in MIA as well. Conformity seems to be the order of the day to those now in charge. I'll personally keep wearing my "RUSH" lanyard thank you. That's the band RUSH not Limburger.

Well, compliance going into the merger seems to be what station management has been told.  Maybe things loosen up and the rush lanyard can be overlooked as it was prior.  But for now, compliance is what management has expressed.