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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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Tim,
 
I have only stated what the IAM and the TWU agreed with.
 
If you dont believe it, why dont you contact Tom Regan.
 
All you do is spread hate and discontent, and spread lies and misinformation.
 
You must be getting extra pay from AH on the side.
 
700UW said:
Tim,
 
I have only stated what the IAM and the TWU agreed with.
 
If you dont believe it, why dont you contact Tom Regan.
 
All you do is spread hate and discontent, and spread lies and misinformation.
 
You must be getting extra pay from AH on the side.
I don't think he's lying now ,he certainly wasn't on the UA deal despite IAM lackeys saying he was
 
P. REZ said:
Tim,
 
I have been honest about scs. I have briefed this in PHX. C'mon Tim, I support AH now? Get a grip on reality.
 
P. Rez
You havent been honest. I have phx peeps calling me up saying that the union is not necessarily obligated to file scs within 6 months. I had to explain to them that part of the 4.3% wage increase was that the union had to file. They told me that you are saying that the association agreement trumps that, which is ridiculous. I had to also explain that the government doesnt even recognize the association and that the only way a certified association exist is if a union calls for scs and members vote on it. You picked up where bartz and klemm left off at and that is disappointing.
It was also unwise of you to be the weak link and persuade the nc that the wage should be lowered in the proposal to a level at dos below amr. Yes that supports AH so please stop talking about how bad AH is when you yourself agreed to propose a wage that is lower than amr at dos. Have you not listened to one member? My gosh!
 
700UW said:
Tim,
 
I have only stated what the IAM and the TWU agreed with.
 
If you dont believe it, why dont you contact Tom Regan.
 
All you do is spread hate and discontent, and spread lies and misinformation.
 
You must be getting extra pay from AH on the side.
I dont mean to be rude but apparently you have no comprehension that twu and iam pledges have no legal bearing on the obligations contained in the mou.

Also, is the association recognized and certified by the nmb? Lol
And
 
Also say if the TWU doesnt file the SCS which is in the MOU, what is AAG going to do?
 
They cant file the SCS with the NMB themselves, all they can do is file a grievance like US and AH did with the airbus overhaul, and it took a court case, an appeals court case and arbitration it took over a year for it to be settled.
 
Rat, go read the alliance agreement.
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/Bulletins/2013/TWU/Mechanic%20and%20Related%20Association%20Agreement.pdf

 
Paragraph 11.
At the appropriate time mutually agreed to by the International Presidents of TWU and the IAM after the closing of the merger transaction between American Airlines and US Airways , the Association shall file an application with the National Mediation Board for investigation of single carrier representation dispute among the Carrier's employees, and for the certification of the Association as the representative of the Employees and extinguishment  of the Labor Partners' pre-merger certifications at American Airlines and US Airways.
 
 
Tim Nelson said:
You havent been honest. I have phx peeps calling me up saying that the union is not necessarily obligated to file scs within 6 months. I had to explain to them that part of the 4.3% wage increase was that the union had to file. They told me that you are saying that the association agreement trumps that, which is ridiculous. I had to also explain that the government doesnt even recognize the association and that the only way a certified association exist is if a union calls for scs and members vote on it. You picked up where bartz and klemm left off at and that is disappointing.
It was also unwise of you to be the weak link and persuade the nc that the wage should be lowered in the proposal to a level at dos below amr. Yes that supports AH so please stop talking about how bad AH is when you yourself agreed to propose a wage that is lower than amr at dos. Have you not listened to one member? My gosh!
Tim,
 
That is a bunch of bs and you know it. CB knows what I think of scs and I'll leave it at that. As to spearheading anything, I stood up and stated that we should get rid of a few items that nobody was saying were important in the surveys. And on those items, I don't recall anybody voting against. Let's not twist everything to fit what you think. 
 
P. Rez
 
To the established loyalist just dont insult my intelligence with ignorance and your dopey retarded post that belittles fleet service and tells drunken promises in the dark. Stop it!
 
Why dont you stop lying and spreading misinformation.
 
And answer what is poised to you.
 
Sorry not drunk, so stop with the insults and dispute the facts.
 
And dont get me started, you know I know ALL your dirty tricks and antics you have done over the years.
 
Your lucky AirTran didnt file charges against you with the NMB and UA.
 
Hey got any spare gift cards?
 
700UW said:
Also say if the TWU doesnt file the SCS which is in the MOU, what is AAG going to do?
 
They cant file the SCS with the NMB themselves, all they can do is file a grievance like US and AH did with the airbus overhaul, and it took a court case, an appeals court case and arbitration it took over a year for it to be settled.
 
Rat, go read the alliance agreement.
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/Bulletins/2013/TWU/Mechanic%20and%20Related%20Association%20Agreement.pdf
if the twu doesnt file then it risk AH also playing games and taking back the 4.3%. Anyone can commit a crime, even murder, so if the plan of action is for the twu to break its legal obligation then turnabout is fair play by AH.
And no i dont think a legal case over such a clear item will be dragged out over a year. The company will get a judge to expidite the case and fine the hell out of the union and may get twu represented employees trying to tear down this very fragile association pledge.
 
The airbus was a clear and shut case, and it dragged on, Federal Court in Pittsburgh, Appeals Court in Philadelphia and then Arbitration.
 
Those are the facts, accept it, it has happened and gone on and document.
 
And the courts fined the APA, and it dragged on and they never paid it, now did they?
 
I don't think this association is a lock to pass there seems to be a lot of sentiment against it on the AA side  
 
Folks this is who you are dealing with:
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/27043-iam-twu-election-tim-nelson/
 
Post on the former AGW site

http://64.233.187.10...W..."twu"&hl=en

 
Dear American Airline FSC;
I am often asked what is the difference between Labor Representatives, i.e., the AGW and the TWU. Or to put it another way, why should someone consider switching from the TWU to the AGW.
First off, the primary reason to have a Union is to negotiate and secure a Collective Bargaining Agreement [CBA]. As I have talked to several American Airline FSC’s I have realized the cruddy, undemocratic, yet calculated job the TWU has done in representing you. In fact, I would categorize it as the TWU representing the company to you instead of you to the company. At any rate, I am not going to insult you and tell you what you already know about the TWU.
What I can tell you is what the AGW Constitution allows under the exact same circumstances. In any AGW negotiations, YOU negotiate your contract because your Negotiations team, including its chairman is from your airline and department [far different from the TWU]. Further, the Negotiations team can’t even enter into negotiations unless and until the majority of workers prioritize contract proposals. For instance, if American wants further concessions from you and you had the AGW, then any elected AGW Negotiations team can’t even enter concessionary negotiations unless the majority of workers approve and prioritize contract proposals. Remember, your Labor Representative represents you, is your advocate, and shouldn’t be in concessionary talks with your company if the members didn’t authorize them! Does this mean anything to you?
At any rate, negotiations are the ‘sacred’ for the workers so all AGW negotiations are fully disclosed to the members it represents. Each company proposal and AGW counter proposal from your Negotiations team must be on display on the AGW website for full disclosure! Further, the AGW, by Constitution, can’t sign confidentiality papers with a company because it does not allow secret, ‘cant tell ya’ negotiations. Confidentiality agreements always protect the company and always keep information from the rank and file. Further, no AGW officer has the power or authority to sign a letter of agreement without being authorized by the majority of workers.
As a side, the highest salary for an AGW officer is $61,000; Officer elections have minimal restrictions to promote greater participation; The AGW will service you with the same resources you give the TWU…your dues; And the AGW has retained a Nationally recognized law firm to represent you in arbitration cases and for other professional matters.
It’s all in the AGW constitution and I encourage you to read it. In closing, you can’t afford to keep the TWU along with its undemocratic systems. The quicker you sign your AGW card then the quicker we can replace the TWU!
Onward!
Tim Nelson, Interim Director, Allied Ground Workers
 
Now the President of TWU Local 512 – President Report:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
At the risk of breathing new life into what should be a dead issue, I would like to use this month’s President’s Message to express my thoughts on the group that calls itself the Allied Ground Workers. I am aware that some of our Local 512 members have been distributing literature about this organization and have solicited others to sign cards authorizing the AGW as the collective bargaining agent for fleet service. Some of you who are reading this may have signed one of these authorization cards. Members who were approached by these AGW supporters told me that they thought they were signing a petition the purpose of which was to show their displeasure with the TWU. In case it was not fully explained to you at the time, let me assure you there is more at play here than just sending a message to your TWU leadership.
This is what could happen.
As stated above, these cards indicate that the signatory authorizes the Allied Ground Workers to be the sole collective bargaining agent for fleet service employees at American Airlines. In the event that AGW were to obtain signatures from a majority of the bargaining unit system wide, they could petition the National Mediation Board for a representational election. There are three possible outcomes of such an election. If the TWU gets the majority of votes cast, the TWU would win. If the AGW gets the majority, it would win. Both of these outcomes are predicated on at least 50% plus one members of the bargaining unit casting votes for one or the other representative. The third possible outcome would occur if less than half the bargaining unit were to cast votes. If that were to happen we would have no union.
OK. That last scenario is too sickening to even contemplate so we’ll leave it be for now.
Let’s talk about the Allied Ground Workers. Who are they? Whom do they represent? What are their credentials and experience? If you visit the AGW website, you will find that their "Interim Director" is Tim Nelson and their "Interim President" is Mike Pruitt. Who are they and who elected them to their positions within the organization? The website does contain a brief "bio" on Nelson (nothing on Pruitt) that raises more questions than it answers. It appears Tim Nelson is very good at making sweeping general statements but is very stingy with supporting facts. With this in mind, one of our Local 512 representatives wrote Mr. Nelson an email respectfully asking him to clarify some of the things he states in his biography. While I give him credit for a prompt response, Nelson failed to answer any of the direct questions posed by our rep. He was, however, quick to take offense when the irony of his characterization of another Union’s system of governance as a "one man band" was pointed out to him. I am starting to suspect that Mr. Nelson is what our brothers and sisters at Local 513 might call "All hat and no cattle".
So what do we know about Tim Nelson, Mike Pruitt and the AGW? Nelson apparently works for US Airways (which just emerged from bankruptcy) though he states this nowhere in his biography and does not answer this question in the email although he was asked this directly. Nor does he answer the question of what work he does for the airline. He does not respond to a question if he was elected to his position or if he is self-appointed. He does not answer the questions of how and when the AGW was founded or whom the AGW represents. (Note: I do not believe the AGW is the bargaining agent for anyone and has never negotiated a contract.) He seems prone to making self-aggrandizing, vaguely messianic statements such as "…having Justice as a core basis of my faith and doing my best to serve it by God’s grace alone…" and "…the courtroom is empty and I am free to serve Justice."
And what do we know about "President" Mike Pruitt. Zip.
The targets of the AGW’s organizing drives are the ramp service employees from US Airways, United Airlines and American Airlines. All of these employees have suffered through painful restructuring either in bankruptcy, in the cases of US Airways and United, or under the threat of bankruptcy in the case of American. All of these employees are currently represented by either the IAM or the TWU. Apparently, the AGW is not interested in organizing employees who have no Union representation. The TWU is currently engaged in an organizing effort at Continental Airlines and spent years working to organize Delta’s ramp employees. The TWU has led successful drives to organize Southwest’s flight attendants and clerks and America West’s clerks. All of these employees lacked Union representation when the TWU began their drives. The AGW, by contrast, are nothing but a bunch of Union-busting predators. Don’t think so? Then why is one of the AGW’s biggest proponents in ORD supplying a link to the National Right to Work Foundation, an organization whose sole purpose it is to undermine organized labor, on the AGW forum website?
If there were to be a representation election and the Allied Ground Workers win, then what would happen? First of all, the contract would remain in force. A new Local would be formed and new officers elected. The AGW Constitution allows for members from more than one employer to makeup a Local so you could be in the same Local as US Airways and United employees. We could end up being led by officers who work at a different airline. An "employer specific" Local could be formed at the discretion of the National Executive Board. (I thought the AGW was supposed to have a "bottom-up" system of governance.) The TWU Local 512 treasury would revert to the TWU International and the new AGW Local would start out with zero dollars. (Under the AGW Constitution, 40% of dues money goes to the International and 60% stays with the Local. The split of initiation fees is 50-50. In the TWU, 70% of dues and 100% of initiation fees remains in the Local.) The new Local and International AGW would be subject to the same federal laws that govern the TWU and all Labor Unions in the airline industry, chiefly the Railway Labor Act (RLA) and the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA).
As an officer of Local 512 I am bound by an oath to "…bear true and faithful allegiance to the International and Local Union…" and my Union is the TWU. I take that oath seriously and I do my best to live up to it. The TWU has been the …"exclusive and sole collective bargaining agency…" for fleet service at American since 1946 [TWU/AA Agreement, Article 1(a)]. No organization is perfect, just as no leader is perfect. Just as I am not blind to the internal problems of this organization, I am aware of the external forces that have plagued the industry, particularly the "legacy" carriers such as American, and have created downward pressures on industry wages and benefits. Those pressures are not only economic but political as well. The TWU has weathered many a storm in its half-century of representing employees in the industry. We have been through strikes, airline deregulation, Crandall, the demise of Eastern and Pan Am, 9/11 …but we have survived and we have prospered.
There is no question that this past year has been a horrible one for our members. There is no denying it. The TWU membership made the tough decisions necessary to keep the Company solvent and it appears that American is no longer at risk of filing for bankruptcy. Compare our situation with United, still in bankruptcy, and US Airways, just emerged from bankruptcy. Both of those airlines are asking their employees for further concessions with the threat of seeking relief from a bankruptcy judge if they fail to agree. Both United and US Airways have cut back considerably more of their operations and their workforces than American. American is poised to make a profit this year and the sooner it does so the sooner we will start to recover what we lost in the restructuring agreements. Money-losing companies do not agree to wage and benefit increases in negotiations.
Fraternally,

Glenn Harmon
President
TWU Local 512
And you wonder why your leaving ORD and coming to CLT because of how the TWU feels about you.
 
700UW said:
Why dont you stop lying and spreading misinformation.
 
And answer what is poised to you.
 
Sorry not drunk, so stop with the insults and dispute the facts.
 
And dont get me started, you know I know ALL your dirty tricks and antics you have done over the years.
 
Your lucky AirTran didnt file charges against you with the NMB and UA.
 
Hey got any spare gift cards?
Blast me if you want but what is up for discussion is usairways and all the new iam bull S lying once again about the current stare of negotiations. The association is not recognized by the nmb and has no legal standing so just tell members the truth. Also i have a right to be angry about the latest proposal of december which proposes that our members are not brought up to amr wages at dos. And its doubly disappointing that although the ta doesnt enhance scope as it should.
 
What proposal?

Show the board an official publication from the Negotiating Committee, the District or the International, which states it.

You cant so it's your word, and we know how valuable that is.
 
700UW said:
What proposal? Show the board an official publication from the Negotiating Committee, the District or the International, which states it. You cant so it's your word, and we know how valuable that is.
I understand your zeal to discredit Nelson but if you are truly neutral where is your zeal to call out lying IAM reps?
 
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