2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[700UW]

Corporate law is totally different than labor especially the RLA!

 

[Rook]

To P.Rez and Cb
To your knowledge is the IAM is or have been in constant contact with the NMB about future talks or a release date?
A simple yes or no will be sufficient since most of us on here know your not at liberty to discuss things
Thanks

 

[P. REZ]

 

To P.Rez and Cb
To your knowledge is the IAM is or have been in constant contact with the NMB about future talks or a release date?
A simple yes or no will be sufficient since most of us on here know your not at liberty to discuss things
Thanks

 

Rook,
 
I am told the Grand Lodge has been in some regular contact with the NMB on said issues.
 
P. Rez

 

[charlie Brown]

To P.Rez and Cb
To your knowledge is the IAM is or have been in constant contact with the NMB about future talks or a release date?
A simple yes or no will be sufficient since most of us on here know your not at liberty to discuss things
Thanks

Rook
I wouldn't say constant. But frequent. They told us at the last meeting they would be getting back to us soon. Problem is, who knows what is soon to the NMB. Next week? Next month? Or three months. You just never know with the NMB.

 

[P. REZ]

mike
I dont believe that is the case. No lawyer will currently say that the association is legally recognized or legally certified as a bargaining agent for one single person as prez has improperly informed. I think since prez is actually our legal representative and said he may take us out on strike, that he should produce any nmb correspondence confirming him saying that the association has been recognized by the NMB.
As a matter of inquiry, thats fair enuf, wont you agree?

Prez...has the nmb legally recognized the association, yes or no?

To the audience, when i was director of organizing, getting an organization certified and legally recognized was my job so i can tell you that the association or any other newly created entity has to be voted upon and approved by the membership to be certified.

Tim,
 
I am not improperly informing anything. I am stating that the Alliance is signed and legal. Nothing more or less. I have stated that I hear you, WeAAsles, NYer and everybody else on the issue. I am not at liberty to state anything other than what I have. 
 
For the record, I have never stated that you or anybody else is right or wrong on this either.  
 
P. Rez

 

[robbedagain]

NYer   what makes you so sure the NMB will not release either group?    How will you react if the NMB does release both groups?

 

[Rook]

Thank you for your answers P.Rez and CB
IMO I would think that if you keep pestering the NMB it keeps the unresolved issue on their minds instead of putting it on ice

 

[Tim Nelson]

 
There will not be a release, and you have even given even more of a reason as to why it won't....which as you state, "once the single carrier is filed...the NMB will never offer a release"
 
The Obama Administration will NOT make this a political issue in a mid-term election year. If you've been paying attention in the last several years you surely have noticed he hasn't touched many union related issues and has actually gone against conventional wisdom that he would help...The biggest point towards that is how the AFL-CIO had unsuccessfully tried to change some of the Affordable Care Act that wasn't favorable to multi-employer insurance plans which are used by many union members.
 
I assume you meant the NLRB and not the RLA.

No. I meant the RLA.   I have to be open about what the NC says, as it has historical merit that a release may be coming, even though conventional wisdom clearly and convincingly says otherwise. 
 
NOBODY in the history of the RLA has been as lenient as Obama.  Regarding the IAM, he changed the way the voting is tabulated just for the delta issue. There was furious contention from Republicans but Obama stood firm enough to get the NMB to altar the way it counts votes.  Secondly, even though it is UNHEARD OF, the NMB ruled against its own mediator to make sure 1,500 rampers stuck in la la land could vote in our very critical PCE campaign.  Management thought it won the campaign but I'll give points to the IAM for its political engine that convinced Obama led NMB members to overrule its very own mediator, and won the campaign as a result of it. 
 
As someone who has been actively involved in representational elections and has personal dealt with the NMB first hand numerous times, I can assure you that Obama matters.  That said, when CB says he thinks a release is coming, I have to respect that.   I tend to agree with you that it isn't coming but the politics between now and June can make this happen if the stars align.  Who the hell knows about the NMB?  Bernstein described it best in the book "Grounded" where it's a SOB [Lorenzo's words who got burned by the NMB when he pissed it off],  Small Obscure Bureau [I think I  killed the spelling but you get the drift.].   At any rate, something gotta give before June.  If CB said he been told that the NMB is likely to release us then that's a good sign, regardless of any single carrier. A release is the wild card.  It will trump any single carrier.  NYer, not saying you are wrong, cuz if we don't get a release by June, we are goosed. But that gives the NMB about 60 days to determine.   Fleet service will be left hanging due to the ultimatum strategy but the NMB knows that, and imo, is very favorable to labor.  Not saying I'm right or wrong, and I might be naïve to be open about it, but honestly, who the hell knows????  The damn NMB is a political machine. Bottom line.

 

[NYer]

NYer   what makes you so sure the NMB will not release either group?    How will you react if the NMB does release both groups?

In the AA case they made it very clear that they are not about to let an issue such as this to become a political factor. They will also not allow any damage to a fragile economy. In the current case, I'm sure they are also not going to get blamed for any financial hardship incurred by any financial damage that may occur to a recently bankrupt airline and/or cause damage to the stock price.

When there was a tentative agreement turned down, the NMB didn't schedule any more talks for months. The same was true for the APA and the APFA. I'm sure there have been similar dialogue with the IAM NC in which it was shared that they will not get released and the best course of action is to get a deal and let the Members decide.

They are there to get a deal, not necessarily a fair deal, a respectable deal or a meaningful deal.....just a deal. They will also be telling the NC that they need to move on from the 2005 BK and concentrate on today.

Aside from that, there are others in the airline industry that are also in Mediation, such as Southwest and Republic.

 

[700UW]

How many times do you have to be told the current issues at US are in no way similar at all to what was four years ago at AA?

 

[Tim Nelson]

In the AA case they made it very clear that they are not about to let an issue such as this to become a political factor. They will also not allow any damage to a fragile economy. In the current case, I'm sure they are also not going to get blamed for any financial hardship incurred by any financial damage that may occur to a recently bankrupt airline and/or cause damage to the stock price.

When there was a tentative agreement turned down, the NMB didn't schedule any more talks for months. The same was true for the APA and the APFA. I'm sure there have been similar dialogue with the IAM NC in which it was shared that they will not get released and the best course of action is to get a deal and let the Members decide.

They are there to get a deal, not necessarily a fair deal, a respectable deal or a meaningful deal.....just a deal. They will also be telling the NC that they need to move on from the 2005 BK and concentrate on today.

Aside from that, there are others in the airline industry that are also in Mediation, such as Southwest and Republic.

NYer, I know you and know that you were a part of that NMB decision and were actually dealing with the NMB firsthand on the matter.  No disrespect but I think the two cases are different.  At the time, I didn't see no way in hell the NMB would release you guys, as strong as the TWU case was, because your airline was the #1 airline but it was circling the drain and everyone knew it was going bankrupt.  Why would Obama set himself up for killing an airline? 
 
OTOH,  the economy is much better than back then, the industry is doing back flips in profits, and the airline is blowing away all projections.  Things have changed.  Not saying he will or won't allow a strike but a release is totally separate from a strike as you know.  Obama may split it in between with a PEB which delays things for 30 days but gives both parties time to get their collective **** together, including AH.  Again, I don't see it but the politics are favorable actually.

 

[Other People]

NYer, I know you and know that you were a part of that NMB decision and were actually dealing with the NMB firsthand on the matter.  No disrespect but I think the two cases are different.  At the time, I didn't see no way in hell the NMB would release you guys, as strong as the TWU case was, because your airline was the #1 airline but it was circling the drain and everyone knew it was going bankrupt.  Why would Obama set himself up for killing an airline? 
 
OTOH,  the economy is much better than back then, the industry is doing back flips in profits, and the airline is blowing away all projections.  Things have changed.  Not saying he will or won't allow a strike but a release is totally separate from a strike as you know.  Obama may split it in between with a PEB which delays things for 30 days but gives both parties time to get their collective #### together, including AH.  Again, I don't see it but the politics are favorable actually.

Timmy, I didn't like your style and was against you until everything you said came true and you stood strong. But I want to say a few things without you going nuts on me.  Myself and my United brothers and sisters know that you are what we need and that you have the leadership that I haven't seen from anyone else.  Everyone who is currently in office are nothing more than fill ins and lack most of everything that is needed to lead. 
But you have to play politics brother. You need to have more compassion on your own American people because they won't see through the bs until it's too late. You have to do a better job of understanding that instead of calling them out and talking down to them.  Brother, we have your back at United so I think you will be fine, but do yourself a favor and show some compassion, and give your own people some space to breathe. 

 

[NYer]

NYer, I know you and know that you were a part of that NMB decision and were actually dealing with the NMB firsthand on the matter.  No disrespect but I think the two cases are different.  At the time, I didn't see no way in hell the NMB would release you guys, as strong as the TWU case was, because your airline was the #1 airline but it was circling the drain and everyone knew it was going bankrupt.  Why would Obama set himself up for killing an airline? -- Same goes for the current situation. As healthy as the airline seems, it is also coming out of bankruptcy and needs to meet certain milestones in order to make the Plan of Reorganization successful in meeting the intended savings and rise in revenues. It is also the largest airline in the country and any stoppage would certainly affect the national economy and that is the main goal of the NMB to avoid. The longer into this merger we go, the more intertwined the airlines will become and the less likely to receive a release. It is quote simply NOT happening.
 
OTOH,  the economy is much better than back then, the industry is doing back flips in profits, and the airline is blowing away all projections.  --That being the case why would the NMB or the Obama Administration do anything to jeopardize any of that in a mid-term election year? The answer is...they won't.
 
Things have changed.  Not saying he will or won't allow a strike but a release is totally separate from a strike as you know.  Obama may split it in between with a PEB which delays things for 30 days but gives both parties time to get their collective #### together, including AH.  Again, I don't see it but the politics are favorable actually.  --If you believe the politics are favorable, then you're not really paying attention. The GOP is all about going against entitlements and unions and the Administration is not going to jeopardize the economy for the sake of giving the IAM leverage...especially where it just leads to another round of negotiations soon after. And US is not the only group in Mediation. How do you let one group go and not the others? It just doesn't make sense and they won't do it.

 

[NYer]

How many times do you have to be told the current issues at US are in no way similar at all to what was four years ago at AA?

 
That's funny coming from someone that wants to use 1992 and 1999 as a reference to what can happen today.
 
The NMB is not going release the IAM. It is not even a possibility. One way or another there is surely going to be more clarity on this in either June or July.

 

[ograc]

'33'
 
Don't take it personal, this is Nelson's MO... he has a mission, and it's not personal...
Why do you think he is on here north of 15 hrs per day... EVERY day? 
 
Mr. Nelson has been slandering the Union Leaders since the 90’s! It has been non-stop, and has evolved with the times.
 
For instance-- in the 90’s before social media became commonplace, he authored, and distributed word processed newspapers that were entitled “The Big Picture” through-out the system from the CLT hub. The cargo bins of active flights were loaded with these documents as they flew to various destinations for distribution.
 
This publication had a main theme of attacking the Leadership of the IAM, and proclaimed them as being “corrupt, inept, and in bed with the company”. Interestingly, they were distributed on Company Property in a strict environment that allowed virtually NO Union publications, or flyers... hmmmm...
 
Fast forward to today, some 20 years later... same scenario... only he has the advantage of Social Media! It is clear to me that there has been a profound prejudice toward ALL things union coming from this man for decades!

His attacks against the Leadership of the union goes to the pre merger Piedmont days of the Teamsters' representation. At the time the Teamsters represented 4 stations on the former Allegheny Airlines. He threw stones back then and was a constant thorn in the side of VH. Witnessed it first hand.