2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

To: AH

I do not believe our membership would ratify a ta proposal that is recommended by our nc that has a lower wage than amr at dos.
Not sure of your timetable for moving things forward but i dont believe our nc will be legitimate or have any juice to get you your ta passed if such terms are included.
I myself will do what i can to shut down an unfair agreement. Time will tell if the current proposal comes forward with wages that the majority feels would be disrespectful.

Regards,

 

[psa8979]

Brothers/Sisters your facts,laws,speculations, and possibilities are all right . What a release from the NMB under the laws of the RLA frames is the Media News Story. It puts doubt in the Air Transportation Consumers mind that a possible disruption/strike at AAL/LCC means uncertainty and inconvenience . For AAL/DP  that means a loss of revenue $, market share $, and stock decline $. For the informed /educated Airline Union Members it's the last weapon in the arsenal that needs to be used with extreme caution. Otherwise it becomes NUCLEAR ! NO Contract. NO SCS. NO Labor Peace for DP/AAL.

 

[roabilly]

nah not wrong, this industry still has some of the best wage medical long after regulation, but the government and the rla have alot to do with that. Few jobs in this country would pay over $20 after bankruptcy if not for the power of the closed shop contained in the rla. Complain all you want and pound me for standing on the closed shop, but i think you know if we didnt have the rla that the right to work laws would kill us.

Actually, I never mentioned “Closed Shops” (You did). However, I understand them completely. Don’t you remember when I discussed this a few months ago for several pages regarding the Republican proposal to initiate a National Right to Work Act? Remember how devastating I said this would be regarding the industry by eliminated the closed shop standard contained in the RLA?
 
 Of course not... you dismissed it... and blew me off because you are the almighty Nelson!
 
Click on this as a refresher!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Actually, I never mentioned “Closed Shops” (You did). However, I understand them completely. Don’t you remember when I discussed this a few months ago for several pages regarding the Republican proposal to initiate a National Right to Work Act? Remember how devastating I said this would be regarding the industry by eliminated the closed shop standard contained in the RLA?
 
 Of course not... you dismissed it... and blew me off because you are the almighty Nelson!
 
Click on this as a refresher!

Not the almighty nelson. Carry on.

 

[ograc]

The IAM would never put the union (the organization and it's structure) on the line for the benefit of its members. Buffy would come and instill fear and have his minions at sell you guys a POS agreement just like at Boeing even if released the IAM doesn't have the balls to strike.

Josh

The battle on two fronts; as I have referred to. Both parties have their own interests in mind. The employees / members are merely collateral damage.

 

[ograc]

Megalomaniac:
 
Roa,
 
You know what I find the most ironic is that Tim was one of the main driving forces on getting Delaney and his gang elected, and he turned on them like he does on everyone else, as Tim couldnt be the puppet master.
 
Yet he doesnt admit he was the person behind the New Direction when they came in and knocked out the old Canale gang.
 
He has no one to blame but himself.

Unfortunately, based on the election results of the entire membership, we may have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Not convinced though the Canale gang would have done anything different. Maybe the problem lies with the Grand Lodge leadership's agenda. After all, the District leadership, reports to them.

 

[ograc]

Nelson,
 
You are wrong! Prior to the late 70’s-- Government Regulation of the Industry, and NOT the RLA were instrumental in the excellent wages and benefits historically enjoyed by Airline Workers. Prior to Deregulation, markets were protected from encroaching competitors, and profits were built in. The Airline leaders mostly went with Union proposals during those days without much of a fight because they could afford it, and they wanted, (and got no) Labor Issues.
 
However-- in my opinion, we are closer to the dynamics of 70’s regulation today due to the Mergers and Acquisitions. Markets are once again secure, and profits are flowing for the majors. Of course the CEO’s would disagree, as they play the poor pitiful battered carriers in today’s suppressed labor renaissance.
 
The time is opportune for Fleet Service to take advantage of these dynamics... the merged companies need synergies and cooperation from labor... profits are up... however, they could be much higher with these synergies consummated.

Roa,
You are correct in your assesment that this is an opportune time for Fleet Service and the IAM to take advantage of these dynamics. Unfortunately, niether the IAM or it's members has the committment or the b#lls to do it as I see it. We waste too much time with chatter about the possibilities of "locking out" or "the company can impose this or that". Labor will gain nothing until we can get away from all this and learn how to say NO. If the founding organizors and members of labor bought into this fear there would be no organized labor in this country. I know you're retired and this is no longer your battle... but it's time for this union and it's members to grow a set and lock and load. Nothing meaningful will be achieved without the willingness to stand up and fight.

 

[cltrat]

Unfortunately, based on the election results of the entire membership, we may have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Not convinced though the Canale gang would have done anything different. Maybe the problem lies with the Grand Lodge leadership's agenda. After all, the District leadership, reports to them.

Unfortunately, based on the election results of the entire membership, we may have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Not convinced though the Canale gang would have done anything different. Maybe the problem lies with the Grand Lodge leadership's agenda. After all, the District leadership, reports to them.

ograc there imo is where change is needed the most

 

[700UW]

M&R has stepped up when the time was necessary and it seems like its going to be needed again.

 

[mike33]

To: AH

I do not believe our membership would ratify a ta proposal that is recommended by our nc that has a lower wage than amr at dos.
Not sure of your timetable for moving things forward but i dont believe our nc will be legitimate or have any juice to get you your ta passed if such terms are included.
I myself will do what i can to shut down an unfair agreement. Time will tell if the current proposal comes forward with wages that the majority feels would be disrespectful.

Regards,

++++++++++ 5

 

[Tim Nelson]

IMO, any TA that comes back with DOS wage rates that is less than AMR will get eaten alive by the membership with a monster rejection. And scope enhancements is also a must. Don't make me....

 

[700UW]

Do you honestly think AH or JG are afraid of you?
 
The only labor leader that they were scared of was Teddy Xidas from the AFA.

 

[saywhat]

What if binding arbitration was offered should union take to finish negotiations? 

 

[Tim Nelson]

What if binding arbitration was offered should union take to finish negotiations? 

punting to an arbitrator when the leverage is with the union would seem like a terrible mistake.  Putting our member's future in the hands of a 'third party' is a bit distasteful.  Who could control the outcome?  We only need to look at the Pilots to see that arbitrators certainly can F things up.  And plenty of it!
 
Going into arbitration with the last proposal which seeks less wages than AMR at DOS would eat our peeps alive!  If one were to go into arbitration, then maybe ask for $27hr and 7 weeks of vacation since we know the arbitrator is going to find a middle ground to what is currently on the table.  And, IMO, what is currently on the table, especially with all the leverage that is contained, is the work of a hatchet crew who simply doesn't give a damn and doesn't listen to the membership. The reality of the situation is that our peeps should have something north of $24 at DOS but having less than AMR is treason.

 

[700UW]

Binding arbitration is not a good idea for either side.
 
But at UA the PEB actually came out in favor of the union and not the company.