2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[AANOTOK]

You've been around long enough, involved yourself in enough AA discussions to know exactly how it's going Kev. C'mon man!

 

[Kev3188]

True. I just feel like this was a good point in the conversation to bring it up. 
 
If I've been coming across as playing coy, I apologize; that wasn't my intent.

 

[rockit2]

I remember my first pay check in a hub................I was in high heaven , extra ot money. I went out and bought a case of Becks beer. At the small station I worked , it was forty a week and no more, the manager wanted his bonus.

 

[ograc]

I remember my first pay check in a hub................I was in high heaven , extra ot money. I went out and bought a case of Becks beer. At the small station I worked , it was forty a week and no more, the manager wanted his bonus.

As stated earlier... small stations don't see OT. the manager gets their bonus as a result. Eliminate or conceed scope and the elimination or reduction of overtime is coming to the larger stations. Members forced to displace from outline stations will have stations to displace to that have excessive OT. There will suddenly be openings in those stations and they will be listed in the packets given to the affected members in the outline stations. One of the "synergies" and "harmonizing" the company expects to realize with the merger. The erosion or potential elimination of scope language is what the company is after. IMO... it is number one on their list in negotiations. An issue they see as achievable with a divided membership and the recent ratification of the UA contract by the members at UA. I know... you can blame the NC at UA for agreeing to it. Blame District E Board members and GL leaders for endorsing it; but in the end, the membership ratified by a 70% to 30% margin. In the end; the membership gets what they voted for. Hopefully, the US members have learned from the mistakes made by the UA membership. As a member, you have the ability to vote for your own fate. Regardless, of others opinions. You have the responsibilty to exercise due diligence when considering a TA regarding your future. 

 

[rockit2]

As stated earlier... small stations don't see OT. the manager gets their bonus as a result. Eliminate or conceed scope and the elimination or reduction of overtime is coming to the larger stations. Members forced to displace from outline stations will have stations to displace to that have excessive OT. There will suddenly be openings in those stations and they will be listed in the packets given to the affected members in the outline stations. One of the "synergies" and "harmonizing" the company expects to realize with the merger. The erosion or potential elimination of scope language is what the company is after. IMO... it is number one on their list in negotiations. An issue they see as achievable with a divided membership and the recent ratification of the UA contract by the members at UA. I know... you can blame the NC at UA for agreeing to it. Blame District E Board members and GL leaders for endorsing it; but in the end, the membership ratified by a 70% to 30% margin. In the end; the membership gets what they voted for. Hopefully, the US members have learned from the mistakes made by the UA membership. As a member, you have the ability to vote for your own fate. Regardless, of others opinions. You have the responsibilty to exercise due diligence when considering a TA regarding your future. 

I've lived it ograc............ when the PSA boys were forced to move east, I dropped 90 spots on the bid. What's really sad is, the junior agents are going to run for the money and out vote the senior guy's. When your young you don't realize the importance of things like scope

 

[ograc]

I've lived it ograc............ when the PSA boys were forced to move east, I dropped 90 spots on the bid. What's really sad is, the junior agents are going to run for the money and out vote the senior guy's. When your young you don't realize the importance of things like scope

rockit2,
Sadly, you are right. Young, junior agents don't realize the importance of scope. This puts the NC and the district in a bind. They must negotiate for improvements to just about every atlicle in our gutted contract. In order to reach an agreement, that they feel reasonably sure will be ratified, they must have a good sense of what issues are most important to the members. An issue, such as scope, that many feel is important, isn't even on the wish list radar to others. A sad reality.Ultimately, the members decide, by their vote, what issues are the most important to them. Not the GL, the district or the respective NC. Scope wasn't on the radar with the members at UA.

 

[roabilly]

As stated earlier... small stations don't see OT. the manager gets their bonus as a result. Eliminate or conceed scope and the elimination or reduction of overtime is coming to the larger stations. Members forced to displace from outline stations will have stations to displace to that have excessive OT. There will suddenly be openings in those stations and they will be listed in the packets given to the affected members in the outline stations. One of the "synergies" and "harmonizing" the company expects to realize with the merger. The erosion or potential elimination of scope language is what the company is after. IMO... it is number one on their list in negotiations. An issue they see as achievable with a divided membership and the recent ratification of the UA contract by the members at UA. I know... you can blame the NC at UA for agreeing to it. Blame District E Board members and GL leaders for endorsing it; but in the end, the membership ratified by a 70% to 30% margin. In the end; the membership gets what they voted for. Hopefully, the US members have learned from the mistakes made by the UA membership. As a member, you have the ability to vote for your own fate. Regardless, of others opinions. You have the responsibilty to exercise due diligence when considering a TA regarding your future. 

Cargo,
 
As you have outlined, Scope can, and HAS affected the Hubs by proxy... with senior Members “bumping” in to displace the younger workers...
 
In my opinion, this “bumping” has mostly been played-out, as “most” of the dirty work has already occurred on both the AA side, and the US side regarding covered workers in these smaller stations in regard to vendors, and other cost saving measures to the Company. These jobs and work rules were modified through Bankruptcy proceedings, while the Unions sat handcuffed to stop it under the threat of abrogation.
 
More than likely, Fence Agreements will be in place for several years regarding movement between stations in the post SCS, and SOS business model. I feel that there will ultimately be SOME... but not a lot of Fleet Service attrition from the final harmonization. Actually, there may very well be JOB CREATION, along with scope enhancements!

 

[roabilly]

rockit2,
Sadly, you are right. Young, junior agents don't realize the importance of scope. This puts the NC and the district in a bind. They must negotiate for improvements to just about every atlicle in our gutted contract. In order to reach an agreement, that they feel reasonably sure will be ratified, they must have a good sense of what issues are most important to the members. An issue, such as scope, that many feel is important, isn't even on the wish list radar to others. A sad reality.Ultimately, the members decide, by their vote, what issues are the most important to them. Not the GL, the district or the respective NC. Scope wasn't on the radar with the members at UA.

Cargo, you are correct, some of them are under the impression that "Scope" is a mouthwash!
 
Unfortunately... most of the younger Members are not Members by choice, but by indoctrination...
 
In contrast, the older seasoned Members (like us), who were employed through the non-union years, and the ultimate representation decision, are aware of the importance of S&R language. I’ve spoken with many of the younger folks regarding elections, and getting involved in the process. What I learned was this... “most” are apathetic towards involvement... they are however, VERY concerned about their paychecks. They want more money in their pockets!
 
I have explained how the contract works in regard to Recognition and Scope (Job Protection) on many occasions to new-hires, and younger Members. The common thread was this... they appeared to concerned most about job Protection in their OWN station, and current position... not the other stations! 
 
In closing: It will be essential for the Union(s) to recruit Stewards, and future Leaders from within the ranks of the younger group(s), with a focus on teaching full historic knowledge to them of past events, and strategies. If this is not done... Labor will suffer in the future!

 

[T5towbar]

Yes. We are paying dearly.
Scope was given up for the money. People got tired of waiting. Like the J.G. Wentworth commercials, "They needed cash now!!". So it was given up. Plus the District didn't help to educate (if that is their job in the first place) the ramifications of a "Yes" vote. But I didn't think that 70% of the members would vote "Yes".

I pretty much know for a fact that my hub was in the minority (at least on the ramp side). WE already knew the price to be paid when our Cargo was eliminated; junior members were sent to the street; and others were downgraded to PT (on two occasions). Now the company realized they cut so deep, rumor has it that they want to bring back the PT people they cut to FT on a temporary 100 day basis, to cover the summer. And probably continue to do it again when the winter holiday season comes up. This is some sad stuff. That plays with people's lives. So we get punished before and after ratification. But maybe some voted "Yes" because it wouldn't affect them since the District came up with so called "protection dates" AND LOA #5 & 6. A lot of people got fooled and took the money. Now that stations will be cut (45 in total) those people will have to go somewhere. The District is hoping that people will take furlough if they can't move. (even if you spend your own dime to move....) But if those people need to go somewhere if LOA #6 is not implemented in a timely fashion, those people will be headed to the two places in the system where the majority of the "Yes" votes came from.(But not to the place they are being sent to now....SFO) Also, keep in mind that the company is only using filling vacancies right now and freezing some parts of the bid list, keeping the bump and roll to a minimum and hoping the "insourcing" can cover the rest. The District endorsed this "monumental" contract and got the people who were so beaten down, and needed the money to vote "Yes". Why else was LOA #5 put into this contract?

Don't be fooled. Preserve your scope as much as you can. Money (at least on the front end) will be thrown at you, since our deal has set a template. But at what cost in jobs, and work rules and quality of life will you sacrifice?

 

[BLUTO]

HEY NIELSON
WHUT HAPPND 2
UR BOY CRUNK?
N JUNE UR GOIN
DOWN JUS LIK HIM!

 

[robbedagain]

T5  I really hope those folks who voted yes in your deal the last learned a hell of a hard lesson    Scope is everything bro.   I know I will be reading every line when and if a TA comes to fruition   I completely agree with you that money will be thrown to us  but again as you said  at what cost....  

 

[737823]

HEY NIELSON
WHUT HAPPND 2
UR BOY CRUNK?
N JUNE UR GOIN
DOWN JUS LIK HIM!

 
Will you go down John/Dave?
 
Josh

 

[T5towbar]

Cargo, you are correct, some of them are under the impression that "Scope" is a mouthwash!
 
Unfortunately... most of the younger Members are not Members by choice, but by indoctrination...
 
In contrast, the older seasoned Members (like us), who were employed through the non-union years, and the ultimate representation decision, are aware of the importance of S&R language. I’ve spoken with many of the younger folks regarding elections, and getting involved in the process. What I learned was this... “most” are apathetic towards involvement... they are however, VERY concerned about their paychecks. They want more money in their pockets!
 
I have explained how the contract works in regard to Recognition and Scope (Job Protection) on many occasions to new-hires, and younger Members. The common thread was this... they appeared to concerned most about job Protection in their OWN station, and current position... not the other stations! 
 
In closing: It will be essential for the Union(s) to recruit Stewards, and future Leaders from within the ranks of the younger group(s), with a focus on teaching full historic knowledge to them of past events, and strategies. If this is not done... Labor will suffer in the future!

Also, you got to remember, things have changed so much since you and I have been hired. People with low time feel that they aren't going to be around as long as we are, and some feel that they won't get the chance to top out, with all of the things like outsourcing, and the other things in the background. So they want to make as much as they can as fast as they can before being let go. In my case, even though I made less than my sUA counterparts before their BK, the job was a whole lot better, and my quality of life was great. The job was fun, and the people I worked with was great too. Plus, I came up post Lorenzo, so we were at the bottom already and had nowhere to go but up. All of worked hard to get where we were. Now those days are gone and apathy have set in for a lot of people. The blame the Union. But it is hard to get people involved. Fortunately there are some dedicated people in my LL and my hub that will try to do right by the members. It's just like national politics: people complain about their situations, but will not engage by voting.

 

[roabilly]

Also, you got to remember, things have changed so much since you and I have been hired. People with low time feel that they aren't going to be around as long as we are, and some feel that they won't get the chance to top out, with all of the things like outsourcing, and the other things in the background. So they want to make as much as they can as fast as they can before being let go. In my case, even though I made less than my sUA counterparts before their BK, the job was a whole lot better, and my quality of life was great. The job was fun, and the people I worked with was great too. Plus, I came up post Lorenzo, so we were at the bottom already and had nowhere to go but up. All of worked hard to get where we were. Now those days are gone and apathy have set in for a lot of people. The blame the Union. But it is hard to get people involved. Fortunately there are some dedicated people in my LL and my hub that will try to do right by the members. It's just like national politics: people complain about their situations, but will not engage by voting.

Very good post...
 
It will be essential to educate the younger workers that are represented, I hope that you, and others at your local are doing just that. It will be a labor of love, but it will make a difference in the future of Unionism!

 

[ograc]

Who, on the UA side of the current candidates running for office with the current district leadership team, served on the UA NC?