2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[mike33]

Yes. The 'new medical plans' are going to be rolled out next week.  Many of the former United rampers will see an increase from $0 to over $400. So, even on the compensation side, IAM141 only negotiated a cost neutral contract. Tossed out great medical and half the profit sharing and ended up paying for their own raise.  Never mind the work rules of start times, unlimited part time, etc.  And, the entire eboard unanimously approved it. 

is that $400 per month? Assuming the high end of course !

 

[Tim Nelson]

If that were a true statement-- you wouldn't spend countless hours answering his 'leading' questions. Of course, all of his questions just "happen" by complete coincidence of course (wink...wink)... to lead directly into a suitable direction for a tirade from which you can denounce the IAM, and it's Leadership.
 
Of course, all of this is supposed to satisfy the insatiable appetite of a Financial Officer with absolutely no connection to the Company and/or Fleet Service!
 
Yeah right...
 
Dude... you should have been a used car salesman!

carry on

 

[Tim Nelson]

I found it in LOA #3 of the UA contract at the end of the agreement. Better not be any shinanagins like that in ours. Although we already pay as a group. LOA obviously didn't stipulate $$ cost at the time of voting.

the loa gives management a "one time reset" to catch up on all the cost of health care, and it forces a special reset enrollment, by the loa to be completed by march. Since then it has been extended to april.
The united members kept their health care through bankruptcy and a judge approved it. Setting the original bar VERY LOW and having a 7% cap when rates were going up 15% forced the company to bear most of the increased cost. When management approached delaney and wanted a reset, the iam eboard supported management and signed the loa.
Our members have been betrayed and thats the bottom line. Some dont like hearing this but its the truth with the contracts as my witness.

Lets hope that these guys are listening and toss out the dopey december proposal and ask for what is fair.we still got time because the new direction/rising hasnt F us all at usairways yet like they F hal and ual. Hopefully we can have some diversity and bring some accountability to this eboard.

 

[cltrat]

no group or leadership is infallible and like it or not the IAM and it's leadership has opened themselves to criticism on multiple fronts.

 

[P. REZ]

The leadership is great at division and lies [See United].  It screams solidarity but hammers it. This membership is no different than any other membership but it needs leadership.  A leadership that wants to build solidarity instead of tearing it down by painting false realities.
 
As far as the IAM141 eboard, They know what I have seen and they had to 'retool' instead of talking big on here. Once they were 'busted'  as going for a two year deal, only status quo on scope, and a wage rate at DOS that is much lower than AMR they had to backtrack and scattered like cockroaches off of here.  Hopefully, our foot up their collective arses has opened up their 'thinkings' and they will scrap the last ridiculous proposal of December and increase it to substantial and fair levels.  They actually have reason to do so as well since even Parker claimed that revenues were more than projected and that the merger is far ahead of where they thought it would be. 

Tim,
 
I enjoy using airline forums as a communication tool and have tried to be as open as possible. There are certain topics I cannot discuss but I still plan on posting. I will attempt to stay away from political rhetoric as well.
 
P. Rez   

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
I enjoy using airline forums as a communication tool and have tried to be as open as possible. There are certain topics I cannot discuss but I still plan on posting. I will attempt to stay away from political rhetoric as well.
 
P. Rez

certain topics you wont discuss but can. Has nothing to do with politics.

 

[ograc]

As you know, it isnt that simple. The leadership usually will become a management mouthpiece and do its best job of instilling fear of what can happen if a ta is turned down. The leadership also intentionally refrains from educating the membership on its options, especially more favorable ones.

The membership pulls the trigger one way or the other but with only partial information or false info. Of course, afterwards, you and 700 will blame the membership like you do freedom.

At united,none of us who fought against the new directions anti union contract, knew what the definition of back to back patt time was. The contract says it is not allowed. Well, your boys signed off that it doesnt mean an 8. hour shift where the first 4 hours can be one part timer working the ramp and then a second part timer can work the immediate next 4 or 5 hours in the bag room. You claim you are a union man but your loyalties are to a group of individuals who have actually destroyed labor in this craft.

Tim,
I have been involved long enough to appreciate and realize that when organized labor is running on all cylinders (competent and engaged leadership and membership) great things are accomplished. Much improvement is needed on both fronts IMO. This union ultimately gives the members the ability to choose their course. Wheather it be International / District Leadership elections or contract ratification votes. But in the end; the choice, the vote, and the consequences are left to the membership. An apathetic, disengaged and uninformed membership will be led, like sheep, to the slaughter of what one may view as a good agreement. Unless a member has the IQ of a sheep I say shame on the membership. They, ultimately, control their destiny.  

 

[charlie Brown]

Charlie,  I'm a small dude so I realize I don't intimidate anyone.  
As far as my previous comments, you are absolutely correct in that I said you guys would leave section 6 talks, prior to getting a fair ta, and go into joint talks but I haven't the slightest timetable on it.  It still remains quite possible. The United NC stayed in section 6 talks for well over a year after 'effective date' until they pulled the plug on them and the bottom fell out.  Yes, I remain skeptical with plenty reason. Of course, I hope I'm wrong and that you guys stick it out in section 6 and finish the course with a equitable ta.
 
And what's with all the time limits on grievances being waived?  I've read Robbedagain on here, being unbelievably patient, talking about his own grievance of 3+ years?  The JAX LC....does he even hear from the grievances filled out? Why does the leadership waive the time limits in the contract....why not enforce the contract we already have?  I mean, yeah I B*tch but there is a helluva lot to B*tch about. Filling out a grievance around here ends up in the Bermuda Triangle and disappears for years!  What is going on?

You seem to remember part of the conversation but not all. You did put a timeline on it. You said as soon as the merger is completed Delaney will take us into joint talks and there was nothing any of us could do about that. So like I said, whatever we get, it will exceed what you expected us to get, even though we both know you will never admit it.

Time lines and grievances. While I don't agree with you that grievances get lost in the Bermuda Triangle, because we file and settle dozens of them a week in clt, I do agree with what happened to robbed, and ogracs, is inexcusable. Since I have learned of these I have been in touch with both of them and trying to help them out. I also have been in touch with AGC MM who is now helping schedule cases for arbitration. There are many things wrong with the current grievance system. Too many to bore people with on here.

 

[roabilly]

no group or leadership is infallible and like it or not the IAM and it's leadership has opened themselves to criticism on multiple fronts.

Rat-- I agree...
 
No institution, Entity, or Bureaucracy is perfect. I suppose one could criticize the maker himself for allowing the Universe to exist in the turmoil of colliding planets, stars, and galaxies. However, when those that criticize have personal vendettas and political agendas it gets obscene. I’m all for checks and balances, and “keepin’ um honest”... but when ambiguous disinformation and rhetoric are spun to attack the Union Leadership at a critical time in negotiations ... you have to question the motives.
 
So far... you personally have not seen any form of a T/A from these 6 talks. Further, until you actually do see the Tentative, and consequently find obvious inconsistencies and inequities in compensation, scope, healthcare etc. you have NO argument.
 
What supposedly happened at UA or HA is not our fight... we are still under a Bankruptcy Agreement courtesy of the Company, and a Corporate friendly Court System. The IAM Leadership did not make the court rulings that set us back decades.
 
Constantly slamming the leadership along with the institution does not strengthen Fleet at the table. I’m sure when the Company assesses how far they can push Fleet, these boards are big part of the equation. 

 

[ograc]

opefully

You seem to remember part of the conversation but not all. You did put a timeline on it. You said as soon as the merger is completed Delaney will take us into joint talks and there was nothing any of us could do about that. So like I said, whatever we get, it will exceed what you expected us to get, even though we both know you will never admit it.

Time lines and grievances. While I don't agree with you that grievances get lost in the Bermuda Triangle, because we file and settle dozens of them a week in clt, I do agree with what happened to robbed, and ogracs, is inexcusable. Since I have learned of these I have been in touch with both of them and trying to help them out. I also have been in touch with AGC MM who is now helping schedule cases for arbitration. There are many things wrong with the current grievance system. Too many to bore people with on here.

CB,
I will attest you have been instrumental in helping to bring the outstanding grievance from my station to a final resolution. However, the way I see it, I should have never had to ask for your intervention. You were never assigned as an AGC to this station. Furthermore, assigned AGCs to my station; and there have been a few in the past 5 years, have hisorically failed to move this grievance to a final or timely resolution (mediation or arbitration).I sincerely appreciate your involvement and dedication to getting final closure on this grievance. Had it not been for your involvement, this grievance, which represents a substantial amount of lost compensation for the grievant, was destined for the "black hole" or bermuda triangle as Tim puts it. That Black hole exists, IMO... as a result of some elected officials (AGCs) failing in their duty to represent. Not all, but some, on the current and past leadership teams fall into the fore mentioned category. Hopefully, with MM now scheduling arbitration cases we can arrive at some form of closure. Thank you for your dedicated representation. Unfortunately, any basket or leadership team has bad apples and good. 

 

[charlie Brown]

CB,
I will attest you have been instrumental in helping to bring the outstanding grievance from my station to a final resolution. However, the way I see it, I should have never had to ask for your intervention. You were never assigned as an AGC to this station. Furthermore, assigned AGCs to my station; and there have been a few in the past 5 years, have hisorically failed to move this grievance to a final or timely resolution (mediation or arbitration).I sincerely appreciate your involvement and dedication to getting final closure on this grievance. Had it not been for your involvement, this grievance, which represents a substantial amount of lost compensation for the grievant, was destined for the "black hole" or bermuda triangle as Tim puts it. That Black hole exists, IMO... as a result of some elected officials (AGCs) failing in their duty to represent. Not all, but some, on the current and past leadership teams fall into the fore mentioned category. Hopefully, with MM now scheduling arbitration cases we can arrive at some form of closure. Thank you for your dedicated representation. Unfortunately, any basket or leadership team has bad apples and good.

You have no argument from me on your case. Nor do I want a thank you, although I do appreciate your words. This case should have been handled a long time ago, but all we can do now is move forward. Although I understand a need to run tickets in these elections especially for the us airways guys. We are so outnumbered in this district, it basically forces you to get on a ticket with UA people to get elected. The negative of doing so, is that unfortunately some people get elected to positions they're just not ready for. However that doesn't mean everyone is not ready for the job. I'm not sure what the answer is going forward. It has to start on choosing the right people for the job. Finding out a little bit about the people you vote for.

 

[cltrat]

you're right CB check out thoroughly the people you vote then hope they don't change when they start getting that big check.

 

[cltrat]

I don't vote straight tickets in politics and I don't see me doing so here.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
I have been involved long enough to appreciate and realize that when organized labor is running on all cylinders (competent and engaged leadership and membership) great things are accomplished. Much improvement is needed on both fronts IMO. This union ultimately gives the members the ability to choose their course. Wheather it be International / District Leadership elections or contract ratification votes. But in the end; the choice, the vote, and the consequences are left to the membership. An apathetic, disengaged and uninformed membership will be led, like sheep, to the slaughter of what one may view as a good agreement. Unless a member has the IQ of a sheep I say shame on the membership. They, ultimately, control their destiny.

Im simply uncomfortable blaming the membership for things when there has not been any socializing processes engaged to change the culture. Organizing was no different but when the internalizing processes were applied, the organizing arm took off with incredible success.
the same processes could be applied in the representation arm but there needs to be members with the skillset to apply, and teach to other leaders.
The culture shifts all the time and having leaders who may have the right motivation but are not academically equipped will always put a handicap on solidarity building.

 

[ograc]

You have no argument from me on your case. Nor do I want a thank you, although I do appreciate your words. This case should have been handled a long time ago, but all we can do now is move forward. Although I understand a need to run tickets in these elections especially for the us airways guys. We are so outnumbered in this district, it basically forces you to get on a ticket with UA people to get elected. The negative of doing so, is that unfortunately some people get elected to positions they're just not ready for. However that doesn't mean everyone is not ready for the job. I'm not sure what the answer is going forward. It has to start on choosing the right people for the job. Finding out a little bit about the people you vote for.

Again... it's up to the individual member to make an educated choice. Until the membership chooses to engage and starts making informed choices regarding their elected officials and future contracts the path we are on will not change. Vote for candidates who lack the dedication and experience and you get that level of representation. Vote for sub par TAs and you get that level of working conditions. Ultimately... it's the members' choice.