2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Tim Nelson]

F* the talks....add a 1$ to the negotiations period. Keep adding till we get some sort of comment from the company other than "NO"

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ograc]

Finally a statement that makes since about the eboard endorsing the UA contract. So now I'll respond to that. We at US have been in negotiations for 2 1/2 years now. I feel the negotiating team knows what are members expect and need. The current UA members on the board don't keep up with the US members as far as negotiations. I would expect as well as the rest of the team would expect, when we finally bring a T/a out for our members if the US board members state that this is it and we approve of it, to get the full endorsement of the UA team. I would be pretty upset if we didn't, especially since the UA guys never took part in our negotiations. They expected and got the same thing from the US guys, when they brought their T/a out. So you are exactly correct Ograc with what you stated.

I just don't buy into the UA members on the E Board are out to undermine the US members and visa versa. Each side; from the President down, rely on their officers at each airline to take care of business. The US NC along with the US members of the E Board will be under great pressure to produce in Section 6. Otherwise, there will be much blood letting come June. A fate, I believe, many existing UA E Board members may suffer as a result of the UA agreement. Leadership accountability. But may I ask where is the accountability of the membership who ratified the agreement? Both parties share the reponsibility of a ratified agreement that will lead countless members into the adverse affects of a sub par contract. The membership will pay through job loss, reductions to part time, commuting or relocation. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

UA is dehubbing CLE effective June. Hmmm...

it's a 60% reduction of mainly express flying. Most mainline is staying. 20% in April, 20% in May,  20% in June.

 

[charlie Brown]

So, Smisek announces a furlough of 225 during the ta vote,  then another 850 one month after the contract passed, and then yesterday another 430.  This is 3 reductions in 3 months.  Please tell us exactly what blood bath this TA prevented other than rubber stamping a time bomb date on some stations?
 
What is worse yet, is that your 'team' doesn't communicate too well.  Never any meaningful updates from the District, and lately just a bunch of "Barbie Tantrums' about UA management.

First of all on your previous post. I wouldn't say you and I never agree. I would just say we have a different way of going about things. And Tim look, I'm not going to debate you on the UA T/a. I'm sure we will be debating plenty when a US t/a comes out. And I have never been a fan of lack of communication, that's the main reason I started a email briefing of my own which hundreds are now on, to better communicate with our members. I was merely answering Mikes question. But let's save your and my debates for the election and us T/a time.

 

[mike33]

F* the talks....add a 1$ to the negotiations period. Keep adding till we get some sort of comment from the company other than "NO"

Negotiations are not meant to be Politically correct!. Anytime you neg for  money and work rules from the company, there is no nice way of doing it unless you're afraid the company is liquidating. We have been there done that. These are different times. Unfortunately we are dealing with the same people who still think they have a BK Judge in their back pocket. 
 
Time to push back.....!!!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I just don't buy into the UA members on the E Board are out to undermine the US members and visa versa. Each side; from the President down, rely on their officers at each airline to take care of business. The US NC along with the US members of the E Board will be under great pressure to produce in Section 6. Otherwise, there will be much blood letting come June. A fate, I believe, many existing UA E Board members may suffer as a result of the UA agreement. Leadership accountability. But may I ask where is the accountability of the membership who ratified the agreement? Both parties share the reponsibility of a ratified agreement that will lead countless members into the adverse affects of a sub par contract. The membership will pay through job loss, reductions to part time, commuting or relocation. 

This is a place where me and you disagree somewhat. The IAM "Top Attorney" Ira Gottlieb, wrote a legal opinion and it was given to everyone.  That opinon said that the union was powerless and could do nothing if TA2 was rejected. He went further by saying that Congress may very well step in and give a worse contract.  The other paid representative, Delaney and boys, outright lied about full time commitments, and part time back to back.  The paid reps insisted in meetings, conferences, and even on facebook that if you are full time now, then you can't be displaced from full time.  And the definition of 'back to back' part time was presented in a different way than how we now know it is, i.e., two part timers can work a 8.5 hour shift if one works 4 hours on the ramp, then the next shift starts immediately in the bag room or an other area.
 
This is where I have a huge problem with CB.  No way in hell would there have been a unanimous support if I were on the eboard. I don't care what airline because fundamentally we have to protect our craft first.

 

[robbedagain]

Id say why not let the news media know the status and how the nmb refuses to domjack sh crap!

 

[charlie Brown]

I formed my opinion from the language itsself..  I do comprehend what i read, maybe not all the first time, but by the 15th i think that i wouldn't need anyone else's opinion. Not trying to instigate anything CB because i think you US guys will do the right thing but now i am not so sure that any endorsement by the UA guys mean anything.

Not trying to stir things either Mike. I know your perfectly capable of reading and understanding. Didn't mean it that way. I just meant that a lot of things that are happening now, was going to happen anyway, and to some things to a greater degree. It sometimes makes something's more clearer to here from one of them what they were facing.

 

[charlie Brown]

Cb do you know if theres any scheduled talks or what the status is since early jan?

No further talks scheduled at this time. I think that could change relatively soon IMO.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

When are you coming to CLT on a permanent basis?

Working out things on my lease but I hope to be there by April.

 

[cltrat]

Working out things on my lease but I hope to be there by April.

maybe roabilly has a room you could rent....lol

 

[ograc]

This is a place where me and you disagree somewhat. The IAM "Top Attorney" Ira Gottlieb, wrote a legal opinion and it was given to everyone.  That opinon said that the union was powerless and could do nothing if TA2 was rejected. He went further by saying that Congress may very well step in and give a worse contract.  The other paid representative, Delaney and boys, outright lied about full time commitments, and part time back to back.  The paid reps insisted in meetings, conferences, and even on facebook that if you are full time now, then you can't be displaced from full time.  And the definition of 'back to back' part time was presented in a different way than how we now know it is, i.e., two part timers can work a 8.5 hour shift if one works 4 hours on the ramp, then the next shift starts immediately in the bag room or an other area.
 
This is where I have a huge problem with CB.  No way in hell would there have been a unanimous support if I were on the eboard. I don't care what airline because fundamentally we have to protect our craft first.

Ira Gottlieb's legal opinion... that the union was powerless and could do nothing if TA 2 was rejected exemplifies the current lack of backbone of the IAM. I could imagine what would happen to Ira had he handed that opinion to Hoffa. If Ira's legal opinion is in fact true... so much for the "Fighting Machinists". Since when have we started allowing "lawyers" determine the direction the union takes? If that's the case... the union has indeed become bed fellows with the company. I say we lock and load, fight the fight, and let the lawyers clean up the mess. On the other hand; even with dissenting opinion and the lack of unanimous support from the eboard the TA was being brought to the membership. After all... our lawyer said we were powerless and could gain nothing with rejecting the TA. Maybe it's time to hire better legal representation before we start blaming each other. 

 

[700UW]

Huh?  Not sure where you get that this is my ticket?  PHL members picked Carl, and after I met him, he was definitely the right pick.  Same with PHX,  PHX members picked Artie. I knew of Artie previously.
I'm excited about the entire ticket. There is more experience at serving members with this opposition ticket than any opposition ticket I have ever seen since I've been an IAM member.  As far as experience, how is that working out for you?  Seems your experience has you with losing your freedom and being compelled to push United Airline members who United Airline members simply don't want after the UA contract debacle. Time will tell. At any rate, I guess you can get by with it standing out in front of Local 1725 handing out ballots to US AIRWAYS members who don't know the United members you are pushing. Disappointing indeed and you are doing the one thing that you said you would NEVER do.

 
Why would he be outside handing out ballots?
 
 
That would be the RS and the Tellers who are in charge of the election who are inside, if you are running on the ticket you are not involved handing out ballots.

 

[700UW]

CB,
 
Has the board said why they wont rule on a release for either group and why arent they scheduling talks?

 

[charlie Brown]

CB,
 
Has the board said why they wont rule on a release for either group and why arent they scheduling talks?

From what I heard from the meeting on the 21st. Linda ( can't remember correct last name. ) head of the NMB just adjourned the meetings with no indication of a release, or no date for return. That's all I've been told.