2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[mike33]

How is it waiving the white flag?
 
If you dont waive the time limits it moves the grievance to the next step, first step,second step and third step are all controlled by the company, immediate supervisor, then manager, then labor relations.  So the company moves it up to mediation, then arbitration.
 
So it would create an even bigger backlog, now wont it?
 
Its the reality of the system, that needs to be changed.
 
You have one labor relations department, they handle all the unionized groups, USAPA, AFA, CWA/IBT, IAM and TWU, plus they handle all contract negotiations, the system is designed for failure.

I asked a legitimate question, if adhering the time limits moves it to the next step, then everything ends up in arbitration or withdrawn, how does that solve the issue?

It's called Fair Representation !!!    Cost is irrelevant!  Make it up somewhere else! 

 

[700UW]

Can you not answer the questions?
 
And its apparent you havent dealt with US Labor UnRelations.

 

[cltrat]

If that were the case-- I wouldn't be endorsing posters like Cargo (ograc) who is often critical of the Leadership. Cargo is well informed, and actually participates in the process of being a devoted trade unionist. If, and when does dissent, it’s for good solid educated reasons. He is not a political pawn...
 
How times have you seen him parrot Nelson?

lol you're going to say your not a puppet because of a poster you endorse?

lol that's funny there you should considered doing stand up since you're retired and don't work under any of this anymore so face it, you don't have a dog in the fight unless what I questioned you on earlier is indeed true.

I called you a puppet because anything the leadership tells you or does is good and not to be questioned.
That UA agreement you like to say has nothing to do with US , has everything to do with us.
Once US/AA goes to joint talks what do you think ole AH will have in his hand?
Yep that very same UA agreement. The one Klemm, Bartz ,Lehive and yes Delaney agreed to.
If you truly think otherwise then we have nothing else to say here.

 

[Tim Nelson]

How is it waiving the white flag?
 
If you dont waive the time limits it moves the grievance to the next step, first step,second step and third step are all controlled by the company, immediate supervisor, then manager, then labor relations.  So the company moves it up to mediation, then arbitration.
 
So it would create an even bigger backlog, now wont it?
 
Its the reality of the system, that needs to be changed.
 
You have one labor relations department, they handle all the unionized groups, USAPA, AFA, CWA/IBT, IAM and TWU, plus they handle all contract negotiations, the system is designed for failure.

I asked a legitimate question, if adhering the time limits moves it to the next step, then everything ends up in arbitration or withdrawn, how does that solve the issue?

It doesn't pass the buck.  Passing the buck has been confirmed as non effective.  If we observe time limits, then it FORCES management to pay more attention to levels one, two, and 3 and gives more 'juice' to the Local Chairperson who has a better opportunity to resolve the grievance in station. 
It's in the agreement, and it's non negotiable without mutual consent.

 

[mike33]

Can you not answer the questions?
 
And its apparent you havent dealt with US Labor UnRelations.

700 .... I am yrs ahead of you with AH and his negotiating. If it wasn't for the BK judge we may not be here!
 and yes i can answer the ?.........it helps down the road that the company may take us serious and actually think about  challenging the union on grievance issues.....  Come out of the corner and punch back...

 

[700UW]

It doesnt force the company to do anything, they would love to push it all to arbitration and have the union waste its money and resources on taking all cases to arbitration of having to withdraw the grievance and tick off the member and turn the member against the union.
 
You play right into AH's hands.

How are you going to force the company to answer anything and settle?
 
Lets hear your plan.
 
You are living on fantasy island.

 

[cltrat]

How times have you seen him parrot Nelson?

Probably not as many times as I've seen you do it.
since most of us here remember you were for Nelson before you were against him
circa 2008

 

[700UW]

700 .... I am yrs ahead of you with AH and his negotiating. If it wasn't for the BK judge we may not be here!
 and yes i can answer the ?.........it helps down the road that the company may take us serious and actually think about  challenging the union on grievance issues.....  Come out of the corner and punch back...

I dealt with AH as my regional manager in TPA when I was Air Cargo.
 
I was a shop steward for years and years, presented arbitration cases and on the NC during my time at M&R.
 
Yep, he might have been at PSA, but he was assigned to the pilots.
 
The only challenge you have is to push it to the next step, read your agreement.
 
And so far not one of you has outlined how you will force the company to settle the grievances in a timely manner.

 

[Tim Nelson]

lol you're going to say your not a puppet because of a poster you endorse?

lol that's funny there you should considered doing stand up since you're retired and don't work under any of this anymore so face it, you don't have a dog in the fight unless what I questioned you on earlier is indeed true.

I called you a puppet because anything the leadership tells you or does is good and not to be questioned.
That UA agreement you like to say has nothing to do with US , has everything to do with us.
Once US/AA goes to joint talks what do you think ole AH will have in his hand?
Yep that very same UA agreement. The one Klemm, Bartz ,Lehive and yes Delaney agreed to.
If you truly think otherwise then we have nothing else to say here.

I certainly hope I have better things to do at retirement than being intellectually dishonest with former coworkers telling them that the United contract has nothing to do with the current predicament.  At least we 'rooted out' CB and Prez to finally admit that they endorsed that sorry piece of S contract. Previously,' PJ and others were claiming that the US AIRWAYS AGC's did not endorse it.  Of course, they all still stand far far far away from it with Prez at least admitting that he barely even read it [although he endorsed it] since it 'doesn't have anything to do with US AIRWAYS."   I have a real problem with 'leaders' who endorse things and don't stand up against Delaney.  How will they stand up against AH?   At any rate, CB will carry on about some things [and I really have nothing against him] and support Joe Bartz and ask the US AIRWAYS guys to vote for Joe. 

 

[mike33]

Enough of someone who doesn't work here.....back to solidarity issues at hand
 
  STALKER !

 

[700UW]

See you have no plan, you would rather stir the pot and attack those that do the work.
 
Cop out 101.
 
See you cant answer how you would force the company to answer the grievances in a timely manner at each respective step.
 
Go kiss AH's ring now.
 
And you wonder why you cant get a new CBA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It doesnt force the company to do anything, they would love to push it all to arbitration and have the union waste its money and resources on taking all cases to arbitration of having to withdraw the grievance and tick off the member and turn the member against the union.
 
You play right into AH's hands.
How are you going to force the company to answer anything and settle?
 
Lets hear your plan.
 
You are living on fantasy island.

You just don't get it. It forces a third party to settle it.  Primary to the idea is that AH is incapable and doesn't listen.   Nobody is  going to deny that it's much better to settle things at step one, but we don't have any choice but to arbitrate since the 'grievance wasteland' is a mockery of the contract.  At any rate, arbitration is the strength of our contract, especially with a nitwit management that doesn't want to do anything other than jerk things off.

 

[mike33]

See you have no plan, you would rather stir the pot and attack those that do the work.
 
Cop out 101.
 
See you cant answer how you would force the company to answer the grievances in a timely manner at each respective step.
 
Go kiss AH's ring now.
 
And you wonder why you cant get a new CBA.

At least clarify who you are talking too....Geeezzz   

 

[700UW]

You just don't get it. It forces a third party to settle it.  Primary to the idea is that AH is incapable and doesn't listen.   Nobody is  going to deny that it's much better to settle things at step one, but we don't have any choice but to arbitrate since the 'grievance wasteland' is a mockery of the contract.  At any rate, arbitration is the strength of our contract, especially with a nitwit management that doesn't want to do anything other than jerk things off.

It forces the union to drop many grievances that arent worthy of arbitration, it costs the union tons of money and resources and takes away the GCs and AGCs from negotiating CBAs.
 
You really have no idea.
 
Most case take two years to finally be heard, how are you going to change it?

 

[700UW]

At least clarify who you are talking too....Geeezzz   

You, my post was right after yours.