traderjake
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- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
Is there a gnat buzzing around my ear?
2014 Pilot Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
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traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
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Claxon said:
Tell the truth, you don't even work here, do you.
If you did you would know that everyone liked my father.
Say hi to your Mom for me.
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
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snapthis
Veteran
- Dec 23, 2009
- 4,236
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January 5, 2014
Leonidas Update
On January 2, 2014, the attorneys for the West Class filed a Notice of Events Related to the Remedy. You can read it here. The purpose of the filing was to inform Judge Silver of what transpired at the first and so far only protocol meeting that the company invited the participants to attend on December 20, 2013. Since that filing, we have learned that the Company has extended the protocol agreement negotiating period by 30 days and APA has notified the West Merger Committee that it will not be providing comments to our draft protocol agreement until its Seniority Integration Committee can brief its Board regarding the current status.
Once again, as we have repeatedly seen throughout the past seven years, USAPA is attempting to delay resolution of the East-West seniority integration dispute, once again breaching its contractual obligations and refusing to participate in the process that it agreed to when it entered the MOU. As West Pilots recognize, separate West representation during the seniority integration process is a necessity given the inherent East-West seniority conflict and we believe mandated under the MOU and McCaskill-Bond in order to ensure that the upcoming seniority integration process with American Airlines pilots is fair and equitable. The East-controlled USAPA continues to insist that they alone can determine what is fair for all US Airways pilots, but all of you know after seven years that this is not the case.
We encourage all pilots to read the recent filing. The West pilots should pay particular attention to the circumstances under which the West Merger Committee must operate. The Company has stated it will not provide flight pay loss, positive space transportation privileges or even facilitate releasing the West Merger Committee members from their flight schedules. Further, it has indicated that it will not release any of the $4 million set aside in the MOU until an integrated seniority list is presented and then only if that occurs within 24 months of the POR date. While the West Pilots are once again left to fend for themselves, representatives for USAPAs Merger Committee are on full time flight pay loss, given positive space transportation and have available millions in reserves.
It has become obvious in recent weeks that the West Pilots are once again left with no option but to fund themselves to protect their seniority rights. We continue to hope that Judge Silver will remedy this unconscionable situation as part of the pending litigation; however, until that time comes we have no choice but to reach into our own pockets to fight for our futures.
Please consider how important your funding is to protecting the seniority rights of all former America West pilots. We are not done yet.
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West_Pilot_DFR_DJ/Doc_294_Notice_of_Events_Relevant_to_Remedy.pdf
Leonidas Update
On January 2, 2014, the attorneys for the West Class filed a Notice of Events Related to the Remedy. You can read it here. The purpose of the filing was to inform Judge Silver of what transpired at the first and so far only protocol meeting that the company invited the participants to attend on December 20, 2013. Since that filing, we have learned that the Company has extended the protocol agreement negotiating period by 30 days and APA has notified the West Merger Committee that it will not be providing comments to our draft protocol agreement until its Seniority Integration Committee can brief its Board regarding the current status.
Once again, as we have repeatedly seen throughout the past seven years, USAPA is attempting to delay resolution of the East-West seniority integration dispute, once again breaching its contractual obligations and refusing to participate in the process that it agreed to when it entered the MOU. As West Pilots recognize, separate West representation during the seniority integration process is a necessity given the inherent East-West seniority conflict and we believe mandated under the MOU and McCaskill-Bond in order to ensure that the upcoming seniority integration process with American Airlines pilots is fair and equitable. The East-controlled USAPA continues to insist that they alone can determine what is fair for all US Airways pilots, but all of you know after seven years that this is not the case.
We encourage all pilots to read the recent filing. The West pilots should pay particular attention to the circumstances under which the West Merger Committee must operate. The Company has stated it will not provide flight pay loss, positive space transportation privileges or even facilitate releasing the West Merger Committee members from their flight schedules. Further, it has indicated that it will not release any of the $4 million set aside in the MOU until an integrated seniority list is presented and then only if that occurs within 24 months of the POR date. While the West Pilots are once again left to fend for themselves, representatives for USAPAs Merger Committee are on full time flight pay loss, given positive space transportation and have available millions in reserves.
It has become obvious in recent weeks that the West Pilots are once again left with no option but to fund themselves to protect their seniority rights. We continue to hope that Judge Silver will remedy this unconscionable situation as part of the pending litigation; however, until that time comes we have no choice but to reach into our own pockets to fight for our futures.
Please consider how important your funding is to protecting the seniority rights of all former America West pilots. We are not done yet.
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West_Pilot_DFR_DJ/Doc_294_Notice_of_Events_Relevant_to_Remedy.pdf
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
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From Dean Colello. NAC Chairman on the MDA Web Board
"The MOU 1 negotiations began with a wish list from the BPR that was discussed with the company by the lawyers. Then the NAC worked off that to develop the framework of MOU 1. Gary had some pilots outside the NAC work on it also and that is where the problems began. Once the NAC got control of the MOU back then it was the NAC who developed the language. If there were any 'secret' negotiations at that point I am not aware of it. That is the truth Brian - no BS."
Dean, I didn't mean to question your integrity. This is just what I wanted. There is no reason for anyone to work out side the NAC. We did not vote for anyone else to negotiate and the BPR didn't give anyone else the power to negotiate a contract. Thank you for this statement and yes Dean I have always believe you are honest my apology.
"Gary had some pilots outside the NAC work on it also and that is where the problems began."
This is more than enough reason for a recall of Gary Hummel. The NAC negotiates no one else.
Brian Pflanzer
PHL Capt.
"The MOU 1 negotiations began with a wish list from the BPR that was discussed with the company by the lawyers. Then the NAC worked off that to develop the framework of MOU 1. Gary had some pilots outside the NAC work on it also and that is where the problems began. Once the NAC got control of the MOU back then it was the NAC who developed the language. If there were any 'secret' negotiations at that point I am not aware of it. That is the truth Brian - no BS."
Dean, I didn't mean to question your integrity. This is just what I wanted. There is no reason for anyone to work out side the NAC. We did not vote for anyone else to negotiate and the BPR didn't give anyone else the power to negotiate a contract. Thank you for this statement and yes Dean I have always believe you are honest my apology.
"Gary had some pilots outside the NAC work on it also and that is where the problems began."
This is more than enough reason for a recall of Gary Hummel. The NAC negotiates no one else.
Brian Pflanzer
PHL Capt.
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
My entire reason for running for office was to have first hand
information and not have to rely on hearsay. I can tell you that this
has been an eye opener as it has taken literally 6-8 months just to
begin to understand the system, much less manipulate it.
When the rhetoric got too convoluted or the legalese became to twisted,
I always go back to the intent. I have deferred to Steve Bradford
several times in that regard as he was instrumental in starting this
union. In several instances, Steve indicated that a union start up was
so overwhelming that some things just dropped through the cracks.
My suspicions and concerns began when before Gary first took office and
had private meetings in Dallas with who knows who? It could have been
the Company, the West, APA, AMR or all of the above. My initial input
was that you should never tie the hands of the President as he is both a
Union leader as well as an Ambassador. However, at some point he must
come clean and bring the team in on the purpose, intent, and result. To
this day, this has not occurred.
It should be clear to everyone that these meetings must have been for
the 'company' to lay out a 'Flight Plan to a Merger'. Unfortunately, the
BPR was kept out of the equation to the greatest extent possible. It was
becoming clear that Gary was treating them more of an obstacle than as
an asset. Before the recent elections, Gary had the votes to do what he
wanted. Now, with the change in voting power, he has attempted to
neutralize the board as they want more to say about what is happening
and he does not want to answer to anyone. This concerns me greatly, not
only because he is ignoring the will of the board and using legal
maneuvering to interpret the UOM, but because as one with no prior
experience, he seems to understand just how to manipulate the system.
It became clear to me that he had to receive this knowledge from
somewhere and while it might sound like paranoia, I can only think of
one source that has the professional knowledge to do so.
The next great issue was one of leverage. Our own leadership was
downplaying our leverage seemingly at every opportunity. As a line pilot
who has been paying attention, it should have been clear that our
leverage could not have been greater. In addition, we knew in advance
what their game plan was based on their previous MO that they never
tried to hide. We knew they would use threats and intimidation and
should have been prepared. To this day we have never pressed to test.
Instead, I believe that the threats were given directly to Gary who
actually believed them. This is the only reason I can think of as to
why he would have advocated for not pushing for equality in the equity
stake and tried to get us to accept a substandard MOU. He even tried to
convince the BPR that they should not advocate for retro pay. Then they
began downplaying the value of Change of Control. The list goes on.
Clark, I have no problem with the President fighting for us but I have
a serious problem when the preponderance of the evidence shows that he
has no backbone and that gives rise to the concerns as to who is he
fighting for? This propagates distrust and theories of conspiracy.
I have now come to believe that during those initial 'secret' meetings,
that there were offers presented in order to get the pilot labor groups
on board. From day one I had serious concerns when the company
negotiated with the APA and then came to us and said take it or leave
it. We don't need you (which I believe was absolute BS). We know the
APAs history and for them to get on board so quickly scared the socks
off of me. Having witnessed first hand the Addington II trials, I can
tell you that I 'now' believe that a deal was made to the West. I
believe that deal was that the company would do all it could to get them
a separate board seat during McCaskill Bond and I believe Gary has known
about it from day one. I also believe that he was either threatened or
promised 'something', as we received absolutely nothing for our
participation and it was Gary that suggested the 40mill payout which was
arbitrary and based on simple math that was supposed to give an
approximate 10k/pilot while the APA received 13.5% equity stake.
Clark, my biggest concern is 'what was APA offered to get them on board
so quickly'? I can tell you that this MOU is full of holes. The west
protected their Hawaii flying, APA protected their international flying
and we protected nothing. In essence we could lose our international to
the APA and become American Eagle. While this might be a worst case
scenario, I can promise you that APA is tough and unified and were
promised 'something'.
It is for these reasons/fears/concerns and not the personalities or
mudslinging, 'he said, she said', that I am in favor of the recall. In a
nutshell I don't believe the current administration is working with our
pilots best interests at heart and I think they don't have the courage
to stick up for us. Further, if this recall is not successful, there is
absolutely no possibility of unity going forward and we will be
steamrolled as the administration will use the result as a mandate for
their continued methods of autonomous rule.
Put the rest aside and vote to put the USAir pilots interests first.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Paul Music
information and not have to rely on hearsay. I can tell you that this
has been an eye opener as it has taken literally 6-8 months just to
begin to understand the system, much less manipulate it.
When the rhetoric got too convoluted or the legalese became to twisted,
I always go back to the intent. I have deferred to Steve Bradford
several times in that regard as he was instrumental in starting this
union. In several instances, Steve indicated that a union start up was
so overwhelming that some things just dropped through the cracks.
My suspicions and concerns began when before Gary first took office and
had private meetings in Dallas with who knows who? It could have been
the Company, the West, APA, AMR or all of the above. My initial input
was that you should never tie the hands of the President as he is both a
Union leader as well as an Ambassador. However, at some point he must
come clean and bring the team in on the purpose, intent, and result. To
this day, this has not occurred.
It should be clear to everyone that these meetings must have been for
the 'company' to lay out a 'Flight Plan to a Merger'. Unfortunately, the
BPR was kept out of the equation to the greatest extent possible. It was
becoming clear that Gary was treating them more of an obstacle than as
an asset. Before the recent elections, Gary had the votes to do what he
wanted. Now, with the change in voting power, he has attempted to
neutralize the board as they want more to say about what is happening
and he does not want to answer to anyone. This concerns me greatly, not
only because he is ignoring the will of the board and using legal
maneuvering to interpret the UOM, but because as one with no prior
experience, he seems to understand just how to manipulate the system.
It became clear to me that he had to receive this knowledge from
somewhere and while it might sound like paranoia, I can only think of
one source that has the professional knowledge to do so.
The next great issue was one of leverage. Our own leadership was
downplaying our leverage seemingly at every opportunity. As a line pilot
who has been paying attention, it should have been clear that our
leverage could not have been greater. In addition, we knew in advance
what their game plan was based on their previous MO that they never
tried to hide. We knew they would use threats and intimidation and
should have been prepared. To this day we have never pressed to test.
Instead, I believe that the threats were given directly to Gary who
actually believed them. This is the only reason I can think of as to
why he would have advocated for not pushing for equality in the equity
stake and tried to get us to accept a substandard MOU. He even tried to
convince the BPR that they should not advocate for retro pay. Then they
began downplaying the value of Change of Control. The list goes on.
Clark, I have no problem with the President fighting for us but I have
a serious problem when the preponderance of the evidence shows that he
has no backbone and that gives rise to the concerns as to who is he
fighting for? This propagates distrust and theories of conspiracy.
I have now come to believe that during those initial 'secret' meetings,
that there were offers presented in order to get the pilot labor groups
on board. From day one I had serious concerns when the company
negotiated with the APA and then came to us and said take it or leave
it. We don't need you (which I believe was absolute BS). We know the
APAs history and for them to get on board so quickly scared the socks
off of me. Having witnessed first hand the Addington II trials, I can
tell you that I 'now' believe that a deal was made to the West. I
believe that deal was that the company would do all it could to get them
a separate board seat during McCaskill Bond and I believe Gary has known
about it from day one. I also believe that he was either threatened or
promised 'something', as we received absolutely nothing for our
participation and it was Gary that suggested the 40mill payout which was
arbitrary and based on simple math that was supposed to give an
approximate 10k/pilot while the APA received 13.5% equity stake.
Clark, my biggest concern is 'what was APA offered to get them on board
so quickly'? I can tell you that this MOU is full of holes. The west
protected their Hawaii flying, APA protected their international flying
and we protected nothing. In essence we could lose our international to
the APA and become American Eagle. While this might be a worst case
scenario, I can promise you that APA is tough and unified and were
promised 'something'.
It is for these reasons/fears/concerns and not the personalities or
mudslinging, 'he said, she said', that I am in favor of the recall. In a
nutshell I don't believe the current administration is working with our
pilots best interests at heart and I think they don't have the courage
to stick up for us. Further, if this recall is not successful, there is
absolutely no possibility of unity going forward and we will be
steamrolled as the administration will use the result as a mandate for
their continued methods of autonomous rule.
Put the rest aside and vote to put the USAir pilots interests first.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Paul Music
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
The BPR Has Authority to Choose an Interim President if Gary Hummel and Steve Bradford are Both Recalled
Contrary to what Gary Hummel, Steve Bradford and Mark King are telling you, the BPR will vote to choose an interim President and elections will begin immediately if Gary and Steve are both recalled. Their claim that the BPR doesn’t have authority because it isn’t explicitly written somewhere is like saying we should all just cross our legs and fold our arms if we encounter an abnormal in our airplane if there’s no written guidance. It’s just another of their ploys to get you to vote no through deception. Our General Counsel confirmed the BPR’s authority to appoint an interim President as this letter was being written.We have been trying to get Gary to do the responsible thing and reconvene the 4Q Meeting on January 8th, the day the recall votes will be counted so we would be in session, ready to take the appropriate action if necessary. Typical of Gary’s “leadership” he chose to ignore the request of nine members of the Board and call the meeting back in session January 9th. He can play all the games he wants, but the Board has the authority and is fully prepared to vote an interim replacement and will do so if necessary.
[SIZE=16pt]What happens if the recall is unsuccessful?[/SIZE]
Gary Hummel will likely see it as a mandate; as a blessing from the membership that it’s OK with you if he is not truthful; if he works in secret behind the BPR and your backs; if he ignores the Board and does whatever he likes; if he breaks rules as he wishes. He will likely continue down the same road recall-supporters have warned you of, only with greater arrogance. If you think you are witnessing dysfunction now, imagine what it will be like at the representational level if the membership decides that a President whom nine of eleven BPR members do not trust should remain in power. Here’s a rhetorical question worth considering: What benefit is there in choosing as Chairman of any board, a person whom 82% of the board members do not trust?
Please prevent dysfunction at an unprecedented level by making way for a true leader and pilot advocate. Vote “yes” on the recall.
You can vote or CHANGE YOUR VOTE at https://www.BallotPoint.com/USAPA
[SIZE=16pt]Bob Frear Ron Nelson Courtney Borman[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Paul DiOrio John Taylor Paul Music[/SIZE]
traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
luvthe9 said:
You're kinda angry for an old guy.
Res Judicata
Veteran
You'll never believe this...probably becaue you're high on chicken fat, but You have no idea who I am. Never have. Never will.luvthe9 said:
Res Judicata
Veteran
snapthis said:
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
I'd like to know specifically where in the MOU the West Hawaii flying is protected and the AA widebody flying is protected vs. no protection for us. I do not recall ANY language that is specific to the West pilot group or any widebody protection that is exclusive to one side but not the other. Another point he made was somehow correlating the East signing bonus with the 13.4% equity share the AA pilots got. They have NOTHING to do with one another...NOTHING. We were not due an equity share since were not unsecured creditors of AA. I frankly am surprised at the lack of understanding this rep has of the MOU. He either doesn't care enough to educate himself, probably because it doesn't suit his agenda, or he is not telling the truth...it's one or the other.luvthe9 said:
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