2014 Pilot Discussion

[Beancounter]

I don't know. I'm sure you know where the Martini Ranch is in Scottsdale.

It's Tom Selleck night.

Winner gets cupcakes.

😉
 
 

Sounds like the kinda place we used to send the newhires to, at the commuter I used to work for. Before you all think I'm too mean, it was way nicer than the initiation i was given. Imagine a strip club off the hiway, the middle of nowhere, in the parking lot of a truck stop. The two guys they sent me with, I think were there to protect me from the strippers, not the bikers, and make sure I made it back alive. 😱  They did the same to my sim partner and he got beat with a belt.  Those women were scary. 
 
Bean

 

[snapthis]

Sounds like the kinda place we used to send the newhires to, at the commuter I used to work for. Before you all think I'm too mean, it was way nicer than the initiation i was given. Imagine a strip club off the hiway, the middle of nowhere, in the parking lot of a truck stop. The two guys they sent me with, I think were there to protect me from the strippers, not the bikers, and make sure I made it back alive. 😱  They did the same to my sim partner and he got beat with a belt.  Those women were scary. 
 
Bean

 
I picture a place on I-8 between Gila Bend and Yuma.You escape the scary women and bikers and you end up on the side of the road or at Hotel California. 😱
 
 I think Robert Plant was stranded there in '84 or '85.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQL22xOmUM

 

[Beancounter]

 
I picture a place on I-8 between Gila Bend and Yuma.You escape the scary women and bikers and you end up on the side of the road or at Hotel California. 😱
 
 I think Robert Plant was stranded there in '84 or '85.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZQL22xOmUM

 
This place is a bit further north.  In the land where the men are men and the women are too.
 
Bean

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 She did not side with yousapaians in a moral sense and in fact disgusted by certain actions by your union's attorney.
 
 

 
That's the funniest part of the whole order.  Silver is the biggest hypocrite in the world, calling herself an impartial member of the court system, then criticizing an attorney who is simply doing the job he is paid to do: Giving his client the best representation possible without breaking the law (a fact her own ruling affirms.)
 
It's easy, Judge Silver:  Is it legal, or not?  Keep your moralizing to yourself, and contact your representatives in Congress if you think the law needs to be changed (to suit your personal goals of protecting your homies to the detriment of everyone else.)

 

[nycbusdriver]

I bet his old man was a weasel too, like father like son.

 
Actually, no.  In this case, the acorn fell VERY FAR from the tree.  (And, having flown with his father on many occasions, I bet he would agree with my assessment.)

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
Socialist? Obviously you are not paying attention. I'm as Republican as they come, my family ate your types for lunch.

 
So, then.  We can only hope that someone as "Republican" as you are has Dick Cheney on his hunting trip.

 

[snapthis]

 
This place is a bit further north.  In the land where the men are men and the women are too.
 
Bean

That sounds like the crossroads of Alaska.
 
Tok
😱

 

[snapthis]

 
That's the funniest part of the whole order.  Silver is the biggest hypocrite in the world, calling herself an impartial member of the court system, then criticizing an attorney who is simply doing the job he is paid to do: Giving his client the best representation possible without breaking the law (a fact her own ruling affirms.)
 
It's easy, Judge Silver:  Is it legal, or not?  Keep your moralizing to yourself, and contact your representatives in Congress if you think the law needs to be changed (to suit your personal goals of protecting your homies to the detriment of everyone else.)

 
I think Pi Brat got it right....wildcard. Phoenix was already appealing before the appeal then we had the ruling. Victory is declared, then the party. I read either 44 or 46 pages because I had to read it twice. Be prepared for a hangover, this thing is not over by a longshot.
 
Maybe the RLA needs to be examined. Last time I checked I was never an engineer on a locamotive, rather a B727. The Railway Labor Act was passed in 1926. 
 
The USAPA experiment has failed due to the fact the law was manipulated in a manner that it was no longer a bargaining agent. The RLA has allowed USAPA to disenfranchise a third of it's pilot group.
 
It may be legal now to allow a "union" to abuse power. Hopefully we can McCaskill-Bond unions like  USAPA to prevent a similar travesty in the future.
 
Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[A320 Driver]

 
I think Pi Brat got it right....wildcard. Phoenix was already appealing before the appeal then we had the ruling. Victory is declared, then the party. I read either 44 or 46 pages because I had to read it twice. Be prepared for a hangover, this thing is not over by a longshot.
 
Maybe the RLA needs to be examined. Last time I checked I was never an engineer on a locamotive, rather a B727. The Railway Labor Act was passed in 1926. 
 
The USAPA experiment has failed due to the fact the law was manipulated in a manner that it was no longer a bargaining agent. The RLA has allowed USAPA to disenfranchise a third of it's pilot group.
 
It may be legal now to allow a "union" to abuse power. Hopefully we can McCaskill-Bond unions like  USAPA to prevent a similar travesty in the future.
 
Thanks for the suggestion.

Arbitration allowed for the disenfranchisement of a third of the East pilot group that received no credit whatsoever for their time in service. It allowed the East pilot group to be told that it had no value when time clearly proved that was not the case. It didn't protect the pilots actually flying the widebodies but chose instead to rope off the top 517 spots that went away with the retirements. It did nothing to protect attrition and actually made that problem worse with the changing of the age 60 rule.
IMO, NIC abused HIS power, which is a problem with the law that provides for virtually no oversight of arbitrators and leaves few options. If I was king for a day, I'd reconstruct this list according to LOS, protect PHX for the West pilots and no fences for widebody flying. A seven year fence has been in place. I believe it would be defendable In Judge Silver's court when placed side by side with the NIC should we ever end up there again. Attrition would be dealt with accordingly and the retirements pick up pace steeply within 36 months.
Unfortunately no solution is going to make everyone happy and straight DOH puts us in the crosshairs of an obviously irritable judge.
 
Just my opinion...

 

[end_of_alpa]

I think Pi Brat got it right....wildcard. Phoenix was already appealing before the appeal then we had the ruling. Victory is declared, then the party. I read either 44 or 46 pages because I had to read it twice. Be prepared for a hangover, this thing is not over by a longshot.
 
Maybe the RLA needs to be examined. Last time I checked I was never an engineer on a locamotive, rather a B727. The Railway Labor Act was passed in 1926. 
 
The USAPA experiment has failed due to the fact the law was manipulated in a manner that it was no longer a bargaining agent. The RLA has allowed USAPA to disenfranchise a third of it's pilot group.
 
It may be legal now to allow a "union" to abuse power. Hopefully we can McCaskill-Bond unions like  USAPA to prevent a similar travesty in the future.
 
Thanks for the suggestion.

The purpose of MB was to take away the arguments and reasoning that both the APA and the West pilots were using to strip the TIME that the employees from the former merged company brought with them. Judge Silver seemed fairly well read in this. FWIW the West pilots have failed to accept that NO ONE can represent them fairly but themselves. From what guys like Tony Anger, the board of AOL and the rest of you West pilots it sounds like you simply wish to prolong your self-imposed agony.

That certainly will not help Holmes, Stravers, Calveri and the the West pilots going forward.

Just my two cents....do what you gotta do.

 

[767one]

That is pretty funny. I thought i was the resident youngin' democrat. Although i must say i've been fairly disgusted with my party as of late.

Bean

Other than an R or D before their title seems like there is no difference at all. Both sides tell you what you want to hear and then do what they want to....seems like none have the guts to do what is right because they more than likely would not be elected again. 
 
All the best,
 
Bob

 

[767one]

That unfortunately is the sad truth.

Bean

I've been watching the HBO series Boardwalk Empire and and it would seem that our current politicians are doing business old way. The only thing that has changed is how they dress.
 
Bob

 

[end_of_alpa]

Here is the MEAT of the order:

"ii. Legitimate Purpose for MOU Provision

Turning to the present case, the West Pilots claim USAPA breached its duty of fair representation by abandoning the existing obligation to use the Nicolau Award. (Doc. 267 at 11). For present purposes, the Court will assume such an obligation existed. Therefore, the question is whether USAPA had a legitimate union purpose for that abandonment.

As mentioned earlier, this would be an easier inquiry if USAPA had abandoned the Nicolau Award in favor of a different seniority regime. The Court could then compare the Nicolau Award to the new seniority regime and evaluate USAPA's reasons for adopting the new regime.

But the complicated state of affairs means that, at present, there is no new seniority regime directly comparable to the Nicolau Award.

And, in fact, there never will be.

The merger with American Airlines, combined with the terms of the MOU, means a new seniority regime will exist only after the McCaskill-Bond process is complete. That new seniority regime will include the thousands of pilots from American Airlines and it will be difficult to compare that regime to the Nicolau Award.

Thus, the only question the Court can answer at this time is whether USAPA had a legitimate union purpose for entering into the MOU.

It did."

If you distill and remove all the Judges adversarial references to USAPA just to somehow appease the losing party it wouldn't have been as contentious a decision as AOL somehow will wish to spin it. That is sure to come this week.

 

[767one]

 
I put you in the Bob camp of supporting your team, integrity be damned. That's OK, I expect you to support East pilots yet there are East pilots who  are a part of your "team" who don't support the coach, USAPA. There are a number of East pilots who did not vote for USAPA, I think maybe you were one of those pilots. I think your objectives were the same, DOH and maybe you thought ALPA may have the better vehicle to make an escape from the arbitrated award.
 
Fast forward to present day, I'm in Falfurrias, TX on a hunting trip when Judge Silver makes her decision. The East is claiming total victory, I'm thinking, read the 22 or 23 pages of the ruling at some point, meanwhile not let it ruin my trip. It's not the end of the world. USAPA could not wait to claim total victory. I wonder, how many of you bothered to read the ruling? She did not side with yousapaians in a moral sense and in fact disgusted by certain actions by your union's attorney.
 
Back to my trip, I enjoyed a good game on KRISTV. Congrats to both the 49'ers and to the Panthers for a good game.
 
Denver, SD next.
 
I certainly don't expect it to be over. There will no doubt be several more rounds to go in this fight. I would hope that the current merger comm. with both east and west can come up with something acceptable to stop the expensive fighting. Years ago I gave up thinking the Middle East problem could be solved but I have yet to give up on two pilot groups full of intelligent peoople coming up with a solution to the integration/seniority list issue.
 
All the best,
 
Bob

 

[luvthe9]

Actually, no.  In this case, the acorn fell VERY FAR from the tree.  (And, having flown with his father on many occasions, I bet he would agree with my assessment.)

Well, I guess he must be under the mind control of the Munn cult. And a true disappointment to the old man.