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2015 Pilot Discussion.

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FL430 said:
350's were ordered for east markets, PHX cannot support revenue base for operation of this aircraft.
Bruce Lakefield arranged for the Airbus financing not Parker.
330's are mostly replacement aircraft for the Easts 767's - as remarked by Parker
It's interesting that the cactus pilot website says the updated Nic list has west pilots as 767 pilots. If you look at the new company 2015 west seniority list on wings they are listed as 757 pilots?
Regardless of who arranged the financing, they were ordered as a result of the merger.

Although the pilots never integrated, a merger did take place and ultimately, the West pilots will have a claim to vacancies on those aircraft as well as positions on the 15 A330's that wouldn't be here absent that merger.
 
N924PS said:
Regardless of who arranged the financing, they were ordered as a result of the merger.
Although the pilots never integrated, a merger did take place and ultimately, the West pilots will have a claim to vacancies on those aircraft as well as positions on the 15 A330's that wouldn't be here absent that merger.
The key word being "vacancies". With no new A-330s on order, the West will use whatever bidding power their seniority affords them after the SLI. There is no "claim" at this point. Never was. Bids were offered and filled by the company at their convenience.
 
Going one step further, there were multiple opportunities and overtures made to the West to settle this. Nic or nothing is what they wanted. Nic or nothing is what they will get. Game on...
 
N924PS said:
Just curious why you think East gets the 350 vacancies.
They were ordered after the merger with AWA. Are these USAPA airplanes just like 24% of the flying the West now performs?
I think the West has a pretty good shot at being awarded a share of the wide body flying you covet so dearly. 15 A330's that arrived on the property after and as a result of the merger that they have been denied because of the SLI battle.
A question for you: Do you think USAirways pilots that spent as much as 9 or 10 years on furlough status should be given full credit towards length of service in the AA SLI?
Have a good weekend.
Personally I think that if East & West were represented as only one group then I would agree. If we all do arbitration as three groups then there is no telling what status quo will ultimately mean, in the eyes of the arb pannel.
 
Phoenix said:
Personally I think that if East & West were represented as only one group then I would agree. If we all do arbitration as three groups then there is no telling what status quo will ultimately mean, in the eyes of the arb pannel.
I spoke to one APA rep that told me he couldn't see any equipment freeze past two years. With the 350s starting deliveries in April 2017, they could be up for grabs by anyone. It would be a waste to put an airplane with those capabilities on say PHL - FRA anyway. My money says they end up in DFW OR LAX. To be sure, they will go where AA feels like can make the most money with them.
 
A320 Driver said:
I spoke to one APA rep that told me he couldn't see any equipment freeze past two years. With the 350s starting deliveries in April 2017, they could be up for grabs by anyone. It would be a waste to put an airplane with those capabilities on say PHL - FRA anyway. My money says they end up in DFW OR LAX. To be sure, they will go where AA feels like can make the most money with them.
Agreed, the only trip out of PHL right now I could see it on is TLV, and that would require 3 aircraft to support. MIA -TLV and maybe JFK-TLV in the future as well. And you are right, I see the bulk of this aircraft order going to LAX and DFW.
There is an extremely high probability you will never see a wide body in PHX.
 
N924PS said:
Regardless of who arranged the financing, they were ordered as a result of the merger.
Although the pilots never integrated, a merger did take place and ultimately, the West pilots will have a claim to vacancies on those aircraft as well as positions on the 15 A330's that wouldn't be here absent that merger.
West pilots wouldn't be here absent the merger as well.
 
N924PS said:
Regardless of who arranged the financing, they were ordered as a result of the merger.
Although the pilots never integrated, a merger did take place and ultimately, the West pilots will have a claim to vacancies on those aircraft as well as positions on the 15 A330's that wouldn't be here absent that merger.
West pilots have had a claim to the NIC for the last 8 years, how has that worked out? Did your former prognostications work out the way you claimed they would? How is advancing the group of 1600 pilots in PHX fair to the 10000 pilots in DFW, MIA,JFK,LAX,ORD, and DCA when the latest snapshot is December 2013?

You are one of those guys that made a lot of claims that never came true about the NIC. You haven't been right about anything yet.
 
FL430 said:
Your buddy Doug said that, did you laugh then?
Dug says a lot of things to get what he wants. You have to be smart enough to figure out with part is FUD. Legacy AA has figured it out. If we were in such a bad position then why does your side complain about West pilots hired in 2004/2005? That's because you had no new hire pilots and had third of your pilot group on furlough. So, your side can stop complaining about the pilots who brought jobs to the acquisition. At least they had jobs.
 
end_of_alpa said:
All that list demonstrates is new American Airline pilots are WAY overpaid and underworked. What's really so funny is they don't even know it!
http://cactuspilotcontributors.com

The donor list demonstrates the following as noted by the comments as associated with the updated version:

"As you all look over the list think about how far we have come. Management didn’t believe we would be this strong, East pilots thought we would fold. If the courts do what they should the East pilots will have the opportunity to demonstrate their resolve with their own funds.

It is sobering to see how long this process has taken, imagine where we would be without the strong support of those on this list. I am saddened by the numbers of those retired and deceased. Doug Parker should be ashamed and East perpetrators should be in prison. The entire process is disgusting.

I will be forever proud of my Brothers and Sisters who stood strong in the face of overwhelming odds."
 
A320 Driver said:
Going one step further, there were multiple opportunities and overtures made to the West to settle this. Nic or nothing is what they wanted. Nic or nothing is what they will get. Game on...
 

 
 
Claxon said:
They will not touch that subject. The reason being: WEST PILOTS SENIORITY PROPOSAL PUTS ALL FURLOUGHED LEGACY AMERICAN PILOTS BELOW EVERY WEST PILOT SAVE FOR A FEW NEW HIRES.
Has Mike Cleary changed his position and opinion of George Nicolau since 2002? Judge Silver made note of it. The changing of positions and inconsistencies.

US AIRWAVES January/February/March 2002

Mike Cleary (BOS)
Todd Cardoza (PHL)
Randy Mowrey (PIT)
Merger Committee

In light of recent furlough announcements,
many US Airways pilots have expressed concerns
about the seniority integration rights
of furloughees.

Beyond that, the absence of current employment
and uncertainties about future prospects are
among the equities likely to affect a furloughees
seniority placement. No pilot, regardless of furlough status, can be
guaranteed any particular placement on a merged
list. The only certainty in seniority integration is
that the outcome is never certain until the merger
representatives reach an agreement or, failing a
negotiated solution, the arbitrator issues an award.
Each case presents its own facts and equities, and
each requires a resolution tailor-made to the
situation presented.

US Airways-US Airways Shuttle. The most
recent seniority integration involving US Airways
pilots resulted from US Airways purchase
in November 1997 of the US Airways
Shuttle. In a decision authored by Arbitrator
George Nicolau, the arbitration panel constructed
a consolidated seniority list comprised
of seven segments, plus a few conditions and
restrictions.


Judge Silver:
"USAPAs Position is Unwise
USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory. As contemplated by the MOU,
in the very near future an election will take place and a new representative will be chosen by
all of the post-merger pilots.13 It is almost certain USAPA will lose that election. Once that
happens, USAPA will no longer be entitled to participate in the seniority integration
proceedings.14 The Court has no doubt thatas is USAPAs consistent practiceUSAPA will
change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority.
That is, having prevailed in convincing the Court that only certified representatives should
participate in seniority discussions, once USAPA is no longer a certified representative, it
will change its position and argue entities other than certified representatives should be
allowed to participate. The Courts patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided
liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that
USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified
representative."

The APA noticed:
"To be blunt, USAPA's version of events is fiction. USAPA leadership specifically and directly solicited this latest protocol proposal from the Seniority Integration Committee. USAPA's merger counsel was also briefed on the likely content of the protocol document several days before receipt. USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations. It is now apparent to us, just as it was to Judge Silver in the Addington v. USAPA DFR decision, that USAPA is using these tactics, including reneging on its bargain under the MOU and litigating the McCaskill-Bond process in court, with the express goal of delaying the NMB single-carrier finding."

There's a common theme. Usapians are seen as shifty, conniving assiciation of malcontents by others.
 
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