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2015 Pilot Discussion.

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Freighterguynow said:
Jesus wants the Nicolau ?
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Actually wasn't Jesus into the Golden Standard...... oh wait, no that was the Golden Rule.  
 
Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
Bean
 
EastUS1 said:
 
I'm always willing to strive for spiritual gain, so perhaps you could now take a moment to clarify how "Love your neighbor as yourself" is best exhibited by anyone trying to place even their youngest and least experienced new hires as falsely "senior" to other fellows of their same class and craft who'd already worked some 16+ years?....?
 
Print up as many ridiculous T-shirts and ties as you will. Shout out "This is Sparta!" to your heart's content, even fantasize yourselves "soldiers" and "battle"-tested-"knights"/"dire wolves"/whatever,  but kindly spare us all any entirely self-serving and wholly faux "morality" lectures in the process. Testing the absolute limits of other people's even most charitable tolerance for childishly absurd fantasies fails to serve any of "you'se" position well.
 
Again I must thank the west for the always dependable laughs. 😉
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[SIZE=10.5pt]I'm sure I have made a response to this question on multiple occasions, as have others, but let's give it another go with the Love Your Neighbor commandment in mind:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]1.    [/SIZE]Two separate companies merged on 9/27/05 requiring the formally separate work groups to be combined according to each labor union’s rules and following the integration protocol principles established by the two former airline management teams. I see no violation of the Love Your Neighbor commandment here.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]2.    [/SIZE]The pilots from both former airlines had, prior to the merger event, a federally-recognized collective bargaining agent in place who had an exclusive right and an obligation to represent all pilots on all matters related to their status and positon within the former and the newly merged airlines. This fact (unions and the collective bargaining process forced on employers by federal law) is almost certainly a violation of the Love Your Neighbor commandment as a central principle of any union’s existence. It seems safe to assume no one wants to be coerced under the threat of economic or reputational harm into making an agreement they would not otherwise have freely entered into; however, labor unions were formed to do just that – coerce employers under threat of harm. And since labor’s actions do not exist in a vacuum, they also produce collateral harm to innocent people (customers) who do not want to experience work stoppages or the higher prices that come with collective bargaining actions which stand in opposition to a free and independent marketplace. Harming non-involved customers cannot be considered “Loving Your Neighbor”, at least in my opinion.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]3.    [/SIZE]The pilots from both former airlines each had a separate seniority list in place, and all parties agreed, through their representative agents, to follow a pre-defined process that would conclude with a combined pilot work force operating under the same agreement with a single, integrated seniority list. Given that all parties freely entered into this set of agreements, I see no violation of the Love Your Neighbor commandment here.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]4.    [/SIZE]With the parties unable to resolve the methodology of combining seniority on their own, the process called for a neutral arbitration panel to settle the integration methodology and produce a single combined seniority list that all parties agreed was final and binding as long as it abided by the rules set forth by the bargaining agent and the company. There was a dearth of Loving Your Neighbor in the process by both sides along the way, but the final and binding list did not violate the Love Your Neighbor commandment. The panel used their absolute power, granted to them by the parties themselves, to produce a combined list that they considered fair and fully equitable given all of the facts and opinions that were presented to them. The final Nicolau seniority list for all LCC pilots does therefore does not violate the Love Your Neighbor commandment.

The east wasn’t (by inference) happy that the arbitrators used “seniority” rather than longevity, that furloughed and MDA pilots were not placed above active west pilots, and that relatively new hire west pilots at the bottom of the west seniority list had an equivalent seniority number to those at the bottom of the east active seniority and higher than those where were inactive at the time of the integration snapshot. The west (by inference) wasn’t happy that the top 517 WB positions were protected before the actual seniority integration began on a 2:1 basis. Likewise, the west wasn’t (by inference) happy that and new wages scales that would be negotiated under a JCBA would predominately favor the east because of their LOA93 wages compared to the west’s. Both sides did not prefer the outcome, but once the list was final and confirmed to be within the policy set forth by ALPA and Management, the Love Your Neighbor commandment would have been best honored by accepting the outcome and moving forward rather than coveting a seniority positon that wasn’t granted by the arbitrator (WB for the west and any west seniority position by the east).
 
[SIZE=11pt]Hope that covers it.[/SIZE]
 
Hello children!  Today's term is "PRETZEL LOGIC":
 
pretzel logic
fallible, twisted or circular resaoning that when dissected is wrong, does not make sense or does not explain the situation rationally.
 
"PiBrat opined that the West were bound by the MOU, when in fact there would have been no need for an MOU if the East had accepted and abided by the final and binding arbitration.  This is a perfect example of pretzel logic."
 
Freighterguynow said:
Jesus wants the Nicolau ?
Click to expand...
Well, let's look at that:
 
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil."  Matt 5:33-37
 
nevergiveup said:
Yes....absolutely....when we sign the contract per the agreement.
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Awesome.  Then you AGREE, you signed on for the first arbitration thus negating the need for an MOU.  Final and binding.
 
If I had a pet rock named Fido, I would not trust his safety in a westicle kennel.   
 
I can't wait to witness the limits of their lunacy.  It seems to know no bounds.  
 
cactusboy53 said:
Hello children!  Today's term is "PRETZEL LOGIC":
 
pretzel logic
fallible, twisted or circular resaoning that when dissected is wrong, does not make sense or does not explain the situation rationally.
 
"PiBrat opined that the West were bound by the MOU, when in fact there would have been no need for an MOU if the East had accepted and abided by the final and binding arbitration.  This is a perfect example of pretzel logic."
Click to expand...
West pilot video of the day....
 
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