2015 Pilot Discussion.

[EastUS1]

 

THE TIES!!  THE $675 TIES!!  THE TIES!!!!!​

 
 
 
[SIZE=12pt]  USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty.  [/SIZE]

 
Need some more "liberty" ties and another fresh box of tissues to cry into kid?

 

[cactusboy53]

 
Have "you'se" a sufficient supply of Crayolas to even make the attempt?
 
Here's a thought; try using the english language to make whatever "argument" you imagine yourself to have to offer instead. While any such effort on "you'se" part would likely prove fully laughable; at least it'd be a bit less boring for us all.
 

 
No Michael....I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color a permanent picture that will last for DECADES.  I especially like RED & GREEN. 

 

[EastUS1]

 
No Michael....I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color a permanent picture that will last for DECADES.  I especially like RED & GREEN. 

 
Hmm...Interesting. Children (at least the even average-level ones) are generally weened off such infantile idiocy prior to exiting even elementary school. Umm...No matter, I suppose. Please do feel perfectly free to most brilliantly express "you'se" self as you are best, or even at all able to do though...And to think I was initially just joking about the Crayolas..."I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color"...Sometimes folks?....Words just fail me.
 
Seriously, what sort of pithy riposte is even possible to: "I especially like RED & GREEN"?

 

[nevergiveup]

 
No Michael....I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color a permanent picture that will last for DECADES.  I especially like RED & GREEN. 

 
Merry Christmas!

 

[EastUS1]

 
No Michael....I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color a permanent picture that will last for DECADES.  I especially like RED & GREEN. 

 
P.S. "I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color"....Seriously? Umm...OK then. Perhaps "you'se" should consider further professional study and dedicated training to enhance you're now clearly demonstrated skills and "intellectual" abilities:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhDJxEPRDek

 

[EastUS1]

.catusboy: I use LARGE INDELIBLE INK PENS to color a permanent picture that will last for DECADES.  I especially like RED & GREEN.
 
Me: "Seriously, what sort of pithy riposte is even possible to: "I especially like RED & GREEN"?

 
Merry Christmas!

 
Points properly given sir. 😉

 

[Claxon]

 
CROSS-EXAMINATION  January 14, 2016 (second to the last day) of transcripts, before the MB BOA Arbitrators.    

BY MR. FREUND, West Council, cross, of Captain Case, Legacy AMR pilot, hired in 2000.

“MR. FREUND: Okay. So just before we go down the road
to the next set of slides, I just want to be -- have
you and I have a clear understanding as between us.
I don't care one whit about what your slides say about the differences between the West pilots and the East pilots by reason of the use of the Nicolau award.

So my questions are not going to be focused on that. The West pilots have already lost over $200 million by reason of the East pilots conduct, and --

MR. WILDER: Objection.

BY MR. FREUND:-- I am not interested in exploring the
changes to their relationship.
So we'll be focusing on the relationship
between the American pilots and a base. Fair
enough?


MR. WILDER: I understand it's not
evidence. I did want to interpose the objection,
since we did have the exchange and the ruling on Friday (January 08) afternoon on that subject.

MR. FREUND: You know, I would like to ask
the Panel to revisit that ruling on Friday, in light of the demonstration that AAPSIC has put on showing the -- purporting to show gains by the West pilots
at the expense of the East pilots.

This is an equitable proceeding and
that -- putting aside whether that's a correct
showing or not a correct showing, this is an
equitable proceeding. And that -- those so-called
gains have to be put into a context.

ARBITRATOR JAFFE: The Panel is going to
maintain its earlier ruling, Mr. Freund.

MR. FREUND: Thank you.”
 

 

[Claxon]

Mr Wilder for the East pilots, Friday 01/08/2015
 
“Absent that, there is no legal basis for the claimed entitlement. And of course, because the predicate of a single joint collective bargaining agreement has been conceded by the West pilots, who have -- the witnesses for the West Pilot Committee, who have preceded Captain Stockdell, that no such joint collective bargaining agreement occurred, although it was a predicate for adoption of the Nicolau award. So the notion that, absent any claimed legal basis for this entitlement, it is appropriate to introduce this, I think lacks merit. And what this presents is that this testimony is irrelevant. It is prejudicial to the East Committee.”
 
Captain Stockdell, witness for the West Pilots, was asked to pack up and leave on Friday, January 8th.  Mr. Freund, council for the West pilots, tried to stick his toe in the water again regarding this on January 14th. 
 
Response for the MB BOA,  Bzzzzzzzzt.

 

[Claxon]

 
Transcripts, January 14th. 
Q=Mr Freund, council for the West Pilots.
A=Captain Case, witness for the Legacy American Pilots SLI committee.  

 

Q. Okay. Thank you.
We didn't want him (George Nicolau) to take it (longevity) into account
at all, did we?
 
A. That's correct,
 
Q And we lost on that point.
 
A. If you consider the Nicolau award a loss, that's a very interesting characterization, sir.
 
Q. Whether the award is a loss or when, we
lost on that point, didn't we?
 
A. You won on that point in the part of the
list that most concerns us. The (West) junior young pilots.

 

[cactusboy53]

....and then the DISTRICT COURT JUDGE RULED:
 
“….The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out.  USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.  But all the Court can do at this stage is implore USAPA to, in the words of CAB, “make every effort to see that [the West Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fairly and fully represented” during seniority integration…”
 
Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge

Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS   Document 298   Filed 01/10/14
 
.....and then the Ninth Circuit of Appeals RULED:
 
Ninth Circuit of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit                                                                       26 June 2015
 

“…USAPA has served as the stalking horse for the East Pilots’ exclusive interests and left the West Pilots bereft of representation.  USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty.  Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”

 

[Phoenix]

The West witness affirms that there has never been any legal basis whatsoever to use the Nic.  None.  (he would be a fool if he said otherwise, but he would have plenty of company if he came to AirlineForums.com). 
 
Either the Nic is fair and equitable to use in the present merger, or it is not.  The courts never had jurisdiction to even contemplate a "fair and equitable" standard.  
 
The BOA is on their own.  There is no "may the force be with you.." They are the force.  

 

[cactusboy53]

The BOA is on their own.  There is no "may the force be with you.." They are the force.

Ahhhh, I see. FINAL & BINDING. Got it.

 

[Claxon]

Ahhhh, I see. FINAL & BINDING. Got it.

Pretty sad you were a PHX rep and spent millions for nothing. Too bad you never went to this Town Hall. Doug had the answer all along. Unfortunately for you, Mitch Vaselino, Ferguson, Koontz and the other 2004 hires hijacked the process. Read carefully the following:



November 11, 2008 (Q&A in Phoenix with Doug Parker)

Pilot: . . . . My question though is I was at the hearing for the furloughed guys and one of the possibilities they were discussing is moving 190s to the west and can’t do that. You know why.

Parker: Why

Pilot: Binding arbitration. So the company believes in binding arbitration. We have a binding arbitration for seniority. Does the company believe in binding arbitration or not?

Parker: The binding arbitration you’re talking about I think – I’m pretty sure what you are talking about – that was an ALPA process that resulted in binding arbitration. That wasn’t a company process. That’s ALPA to ALPA seniority integration that says if you can’t get it resolved we go to binding arbitration is ALPA policy not company policy. If the company’s in binding arbitration, yea we believe in binding arbitration.

 

[Claxon]

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby

 

[Phoenix]

Agreed. Kirby told them. They stopped their own ears, sold exclusive ties to shame folks into supporting 2004 hires, and published conformist-lists on the Internet.

Ultimately the lists and ties could not change the fact that the pilots retained a contractual authority to collectively be their own final arbiters of a fair and equitable solution to the SLI via the contingent contract.

The pilots surrendered that contractual authority in the new contract, ties and lists notwithstanding.