2015 Pilot Discussion.
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No one should be afforded the opportunity to have their accomplishments in aviation gang raped by a tribe of opportunistic 2004 hires. east pilots should be proud of kicking the west to the curb. Simmons underestimated the power of those who would not stand by watching a debacle as this called fair.cactusboy53 said:
You got exactly what was coming to you.
You will never get the Nicolau.
im back..!!
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I said the same thing on April 8th about the childish call sign!CactusPilot1 said:
I knew there was common ground between our groups....🙂
mitch vaselino and other misinformed west pilots, please keep posting on the APA Pilots union forum. Your peacefully unaware, massive assistance, to all legacy AA pilots and former East pilots informing them about your arrogant "strategy" in the upcoming MB process (which you are not legally entitled to) is appreciated.
west pilots excerpts of posts below:::::;;;;;
"Allow me ask you the following:
Do you believe that arbitrators will disregard the NIC and start with a clean sheet of AA/East/West? Or they will use the NIC and provide methodology to integrate NIC/AA?
If you believe that NIC will be used, the pilot next to me on it is a A330 FO, there are dozens of CA below me on the NIC, therefore, I am expecting (if they use the NIC) to have the same bidding power (A330 FO or East Coast CA). I also strong believe that my AWA DOH will be consider as well AA BK status on the day of the merger."
"(west pilot) can easily hold 330 Fo via nicolau or straight doh if allowed to bid it. Don't let FACTS get in your way boys (west pilot reference to a legacy AA pilot). Those are usairways aircraft, an airline M..... has been consecutively employed at for over 10 years. without a single day of furlough."
west pilots excerpts of posts below:::::;;;;;
"Allow me ask you the following:
Do you believe that arbitrators will disregard the NIC and start with a clean sheet of AA/East/West? Or they will use the NIC and provide methodology to integrate NIC/AA?
If you believe that NIC will be used, the pilot next to me on it is a A330 FO, there are dozens of CA below me on the NIC, therefore, I am expecting (if they use the NIC) to have the same bidding power (A330 FO or East Coast CA). I also strong believe that my AWA DOH will be consider as well AA BK status on the day of the merger."
"(west pilot) can easily hold 330 Fo via nicolau or straight doh if allowed to bid it. Don't let FACTS get in your way boys (west pilot reference to a legacy AA pilot). Those are usairways aircraft, an airline M..... has been consecutively employed at for over 10 years. without a single day of furlough."
EastCheats
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Yup, steal those upgrades before you get shut down in SLI. 😉Phoenix said:
It's like stepping into a room with a bunch of Brady's.
View attachment 10811
EastCheats
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Claxon said:
I'm not shedding any tears over JF's fine job convincing arbitrators with sound arguments. Would you care to view the results of his work? 😉Claxon said:
"While each party to this case argued for tactical reasons that it had a decent future as a stand-alone airline and thus did not need the other, the evidence shows otherwise. Indeed, their respective CEOs viewed their companies' situations realistically and stated frankly that each needed the other to ensure their long-term profitability and even survival.
Unlike some airline mergers and many airline acquisitions, this was not a case of one strong entity swallowing a much weaker one. It was, rather, a case of two solid but troubled entities combining for mutual advantage
The parties' documentary and testimonial evidence conclusively demonstrated that each airline had major strengths and serious limitations. Overall, neither was clearly superior to the other. After trying various strategies through the decade, each independently realized that its long-term profitability, if not its very survival, required merging with a partner whose strengths balanced its weaknesses. After feints in other directions, they concluded that this merger was the best available option. It became a marriage, if not quite of equals, at least of well-balanced partners who filled each others gaps to form a new and stronger entity.
Airline mergers and the attendant pilot seniority integrations have proven to be the most stressful periods in an airlines evolution. That stress manifests itself in a variety of ways that pose serious problems for the respective pilot groups and for ALPA as an institution. The expectations that competing integration proposals create in the minds of the merging pilot groups and the hostility engendered by these competing proposals leave scars that do not heal well, if at all. . . . While there are surely many explanations for the tumult created by the SLI process, the leading culprit is the unrealistic expectations of many of the pilot groups. In our experience, those unrealistic expectations translate into extreme SLI proposals, and those extreme proposals are what allows the rhetoric and the animosity that flows from the fight over a scarce resource a position on a combined seniority list to spiral out of control. . . When an Award fails to call out the fact that one side has made an entirely unreasonable proposal . . . that encourages, or fails to discourage, continuing unreasonable proposals; it also encourages the very conduct that inflames the SLI process and leads to the bitter recrimination that haunts the merged pilot group and ALPA for decades after. . . [W]e urge in the strongest terms that [this Board] say so in its opinion, so that future merger committees will take this Boards admonitions to heart and the damaging consequences of unreasonable posturing will be eliminated or at least minimized in future mergers.
Another defect of the CAL Committee's proposed ISL is that it unjustifiably creates extremely large tiers of pilots from a single airline.
The concept of a constructive notice date ("CND") is not complicated: it is the date after which any pilot hired by either premerger airline is deemed to know that he or she will be working for a combined entity and that his or her career expectations will be a product of the success or failure of the combined airline, irrespective of which airline hired the pilot.
Our review of many prior ISL arbitration decisions teaches that elaborate conditions and restrictions unduly complicate implementation of an Integrated Seniority List. The interminable disputes they generate tend to breed animosity that corrodes flight crew relations. Our Award seeks to achieve its goals of fairness and equity primarily through the construction and creation of the ISL itself, while awarding only standard and necessary conditions and restrictions of limited reach and duration.
George Nicolau's four basic verities of ISL arbitration are as apt and vital today as they were nearly a quarter of a century ago: each case turns on its own facts; the objective is to make the integration fair and equitable; the proposals advanced by those in contest rarely meet that standard; and the end result, no matter how crafted, never commands universal acceptance."
No.EastCheats said:
Will there be an arbitration or an agreement? Your west merger committee agreed that they have no legal status. I would get marty ready for DFR 3 soon if I were you.
May I recommend you plan ahead for the eventual liberty Depends ® outfit, your army of lyingitas will be offering 20 years from now, to pay for legal bills?
dariencc
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Mitch Vaselino led the hapless West pilots down a rabbit hole after conning them into acceptance of his fourth tier, toilet paper law degree. The man has no shame.
Greaseball Ferguson bought into the con job and destroyed the careers of hundreds of his fellow pilots.
Some years after Mitch received his ridiculous "degree" the school quietly changed it's name from Phoenix School of Law to the equally comical Arizona Summit Law School.
The respected Third Tier Reality legal blog critiqued Phoenix law with devastating effect:
Fourth Tier Pile of Moist Feces: Phoenix School of Law
"Conclusion: The Phoenix Law School is a disgusting, foul, putrid, rotting piece of excrement that should be avoided at all costs."
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/04/fourth-tier-pile-of-moist-feces-phoenix.html
Greaseball Ferguson bought into the con job and destroyed the careers of hundreds of his fellow pilots.
Some years after Mitch received his ridiculous "degree" the school quietly changed it's name from Phoenix School of Law to the equally comical Arizona Summit Law School.
The respected Third Tier Reality legal blog critiqued Phoenix law with devastating effect:
Fourth Tier Pile of Moist Feces: Phoenix School of Law
"Conclusion: The Phoenix Law School is a disgusting, foul, putrid, rotting piece of excrement that should be avoided at all costs."
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2011/04/fourth-tier-pile-of-moist-feces-phoenix.html
snapthis
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Wrong on all accounts. You have better learn to accept the fact there is a West merger committee so how about concentrating on the East committee.Claxon said:
You better be prepared to pay your own bills in the very near future.
EastCheats
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Claxon said:
Your recommendations have been considered and rejected. 😉
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