2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Phoenix]

Why propose assumptions about what the BOA might do?  We can read each committee's proposal but we can't read the BOA's mind.  Two of the committees are proposing legal assumptions prior to arguing their process for a fair and equitable result.  Its worth a try!!
 
If the BOA does accept the proposed premise of using the Nic as the status quo, it doesn't solve much, as the BOA will still have a lot of work to do, because the processes and conclusions of those two committees are so very divergent.   

 

[A320 Driver]

Two of the three Merger Committees weren't clobbered my it Trader...

 

[Claxon]

You should be more worried about how the USAPA Merger Comm....er....I mean the East Pilot Seniority Committee is going to argue.....
Never mind. I forgot that you're "supremely confident". I'm sure you'll get everything that you are entitled to.

Enjoy CB53- try to justify your Nic list after this movie crashes your party.

The story of American pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who heroically landed the troubled US Airways Flight 1549 full of passengers on the Hudson River.

Cast Edit

Tom Hanks as Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger
Aaron Eckhart as Jeff Skiles
Laura Linney as Lorraine Sullenberger
Holt McCallany as Mike Cleary
Jamey Sheridan
Jerry Ferrara
Max Adler as Jimmy Stefanik
Sam Huntington as Jeff Kolodjay
Autumn Reeser
Wayne Bastrup as Brian Kelly

 

[Claxon]

“In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”
 
George Nicolau, Mediator

AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007

November 11, 2008 (Q&A in Phoenix with Doug Parker)

Pilot: . . . . My question though is I was at the hearing for the furloughed guys and one of the possibilities they were discussing is moving 190s to the west and can’t do that. You know why.

Parker: Why

Pilot: Binding arbitration. So the company believes in binding arbitration. We have a binding arbitration for seniority. Does the company believe in binding arbitration or not?

Parker: The binding arbitration you’re talking about I think – I’m pretty sure what you are talking about – that was an ALPA process that resulted in binding arbitration. That wasn’t a company process. That’s ALPA to ALPA seniority integration that says if you can’t get it resolved we go to binding arbitration is ALPA policy not company policy. If the company’s in binding arbitration, yea we believe in binding arbitration.

 

[Claxon]

CB53 continues his mislead of PHX pilots. CB53 has no grasp of the issues whatsoever.

 

[cactusboy53]

Ohhhh, good one Claxy. How about a 30 year old reference to drug trafficking & a 25 year old video of Ansett?

You'll pardon me if I don't listen to your blather. I'd prefer to listen/read factual missives from US District Court Judges, esteemed arbitrators, legal experts and even former El Presidente Mike Cleary.

Final & Binding (just like the last time).

 

[Freighterguynow]

Enjoy CB53- try to justify your Nic list after this movie crashes your party.
The story of American pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who heroically landed the troubled US Airways Flight 1549 full of passengers on the Hudson River.

West pilots heroically flying other people's routes the movie:

 

[luvthe9]

Ohhhh, good one Claxy. How about a 30 year old reference to drug trafficking & a 25 year old video of Ansett?
You'll pardon me if I don't listen to your blather. I'd prefer to listen/read factual missives from US District Court Judges, esteemed arbitrators, legal experts and even former El Presidente Mike Cleary.
Final & Binding (just like the last time).

Your melting down today, you reek of desperation ...............how bout Clax and I take you to the opening of 1549...........I'm sure you'll get a big smile from it!

 

[cactusboy53]

Your melting down today, you reek of desperation ...............how bout Clax and I take you to the opening of 1549...........I'm sure you'll get a big smile from it!

Yea...not "melting down" so much. I'm on vacation, and it got to 65F in SW Missouri. Listing an aircraft for sale, had lunch with a good friend, bought a gun safe for myself for Christmas, had a ice cold IPA & now watching Wheeler Dealers on Velocity Channel.

1549 will be one Eastwood movie that I will likely miss. Don't get me wrong. I think Sully & Skiles did a good job.

It's the aftermath of using Sully's new found fame to somehow ridiculously convince a jury that USAPA was innocent of DFR charges (WHICH THEY ULTIMATELY WERE). What a moronic plan. Was that El Presidente Cleary's idea??

Would you care for me to post what El Presidente Cleary said about FINAL & BINDING arbitration (again)?

 

[luvthe9]

Would you care for me to post what El Presidente Cleary said about FINAL & BINDING arbitration (again)?

No, that's OK, I think he taught you guys about that.........enjoy your vacation!

 

[Claxon]

Yea...not "melting down" so much. I'm on vacation, and it got to 65F in SW Missouri. Listing an aircraft for sale, had lunch with a good friend, bought a gun safe for myself for Christmas, had a ice cold IPA & now watching Wheeler Dealers on Velocity Channel.
1549 will be one Eastwood movie that I will likely miss. Don't get me wrong. I think Sully & Skiles did a good job.
It's the aftermath of using Sully's new found fame to somehow ridiculously convince a jury that USAPA was innocent of DFR charges (WHICH THEY ULTIMATELY WERE). What a moronic plan. Was that El Presidente Cleary's idea??
Would you care for me to post what El Presidente Cleary said about FINAL & BINDING arbitration (again)?

Of course you will miss the Sully Movie. The rest of the gang out there will as well. You will be regarded as the crackpots you actually are when the rest of the world hears your sob story. Boo hoo, you didn't get to have one of your new hires jump over a guy with 17 yrs on the job.
What you conveniently leave out time after time is this: Mike Cleary ( in the Sully Movie) said the important thing you miss again and again. There was never an ALPA arbitration turned over. ALPA. What union were you in when the court battle started? Hint, it was not ALPA.
ALPA was gone !

 

[nic4us]

Of course you will miss the Sully Movie. The rest of the gang out there will as well. You will be regarded as the crackpots you actually are when the rest of the world hears your sob story. Boo hoo, you didn't get to have one of your new hires jump over a guy with 17 yrs on the job.
What you conveniently leave out time after time is this: Mike Cleary ( in the Sully Movie) said the important thing you miss again and again. There was never an ALPA arbitration turned over. ALPA. What union were you in when the court battle started? Hint, it was not ALPA.
ALPA was gone !

 
It seems your recollection of historic fact is as short as your stature.
 
When the court battles started we were all ALPA and the east MEC sued the West MEC in the federal court for the District of Columbia.
 
I guess you also missed the whole thing during the court battles that  determined that a union inherits the predecessor union's duties and contracts.
 
Oh, and go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and say la la la la la while you read the rest of my post.
 
The SCAB union was found guilty of DFR and the Nic is gonna be the starting point in the current SLI.
 
 
Enjoy the movie!

 

[Phoenix]

Welcome back Nic!! I see you are still dealing in predicting the future (and ignoring the present) as always.

"The Nic is gonna be the starting point." Gonna be.. WHEN? Where is your Tminus counter?

News flash.. everybody else already started. And as the AAPSIC already said, if the West were to now receive the Nic, it will only be because the BOA gives it to them, and not for any other reason.

 

[nic4us]

Two merger committees use the Nic as the starting point based on a presumption of legal necessity.  
 
The West has always assumed the Nic was a legal necessity (as the 9th explained to them).  The West continues to push the "final and binding" legal premise despite the explicit refusal of any court to ever confirm that premise (and even the explicit rejection of same).  If the BOA will accept the West's legal conclusion as the foundation (indeed as the legal status quo) to begin their "fair and equitable" reasoning then it will be an obvious benefit to the West (at the expense of the other two committees).  
 
The LAA committee made a radical departure from their previous proposal, choosing to adopt the Nic as a legal assumption, at the behest of the tepid 9th ruling and their assumption about what Silver would do (but she didn't).  They abandoned the three list merge of the PA for a two list merge.  However their inclusion of the "legally binding Nic" was immediately used to show how terribly unfair it would be to former LAA pilots.  They heartily agreed with elevating the West as an opportunity to right a wrong by collectively pushing all former LUS pilots down together  (at the expense of the other two committees) to rebalance to a fair and equitable result.
 
Both committees arguing for the Nic used it based upon the assumption that it should be the status quo to begin discussions about a fair and equitable SLI (and each for their own designs).  
 
Maybe the BOA will accept their legal premise.  Its worth a try!!!

 
It is hardly a "legal assumption".
 
Every court that has reviewed our case has "explicitly" confirmed that a union is bound to the contracts of the predecessor union.  They have also "explicitly" confirmed that the union is free to negotiate new contracts under the penaly of DFR.  The uscaba was found guilty of DFR violation for its failure to use the Nic in the MOU, and was never successful in changing the status quo at LCC that they inherited.
 
Therefore, the Nic will be used in the current SLI as it is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC prior to the AMR merger.
 
In other words, the status quo at LCC is the Nic with seperate ops.  End of story.  Now the BOA may give the epsic a leg up on the Nic for maintaining separate ops for a decade, but I highly doubt it, as that same status made the east pilots the lowest paid, worst working conditions, lowest category group of the bunch....and not by a small margin, but a very significant one.

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]The Ninth Circuit’s holding, that the denial of the Nicolau Award in Paragraph 10.h. of the MOU breached USAPA’s duty of fair representation, is effectively the tie-breaker on this question.  With the Ninth Circuit’s affirmation of the West Pilots’ reasonable expectation of the Nicolau Award, the AASPIC acknowledges it as the starting point for ranking the East and West Pilots on the ISL. As part of the ISL, the US Airways Pilots (East and West) should be ordered based on the Nicola Award……the job allocations as between the West and East Pilots must be rationalized according to the Nicolau Award as those pilots compete for jobs with each other for the first time, so that West Pilots achieve their expectations vis a vis the East Pilots.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]AAPSIC Pre-Hearing Statement                                                                                                                      19 Sept 2015[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]If the BOA does use the Nicolau list "as the starting point for ranking the East and West Pilots on the ISL, you had better HOPE & PRAY that the BOA evaluates the West Pilot Committee as fair and equitable.  Oh wait, that's not gonna happen....[/SIZE]
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCpdxRaWlXY