AA/APFA LBFO Poll

[IORFA]

I get the moral stand, but why do it at the detriment to yourself? People complain about it being 6 years long, as if the term sheet being forced on us is going to last any shorter. Too much emotion and not enough reality in too may peoples decisions. I guess well find out in just under 2 weeks. Does emotion or common sense prevail? I get it, we ALL want the losers at the top gone ASAP. We just have to be smart about it. What happens if they stay around and we are stuck with the term sheets? Then we look really smart. At least with the " insurance" the LBFO offers we would be better off in the long run if the asshats are still running the circus.
And yes jimntx, I was talking about you and the many other f/a's that didn't read the term sheet or the LBFO. You clearly missed VERY important information on the very first page and disseminated false information on here about it and quite possibly on the line as well. It's all good though, you already apologized for talking out of order. About your comment about the road shows being inconvenient for you, there are 2 in DFW. You could TT around it or better yet non-rev to another base like I did so I could participate in this very important event instead of complaining about it. Facts are very good for the soul. For my friend bluebird. (John 3:16)

 

[jimntx]

I'm not complaining about it at all. Having read the entire LBFO (whether you believe or not. I don't happen to care), I can't think of anything I would rather less do than attend a roadshow where they are trying to get me to vote for this POS and be stuck with it for 6 years. You keep bringing up that giant 9% (if you're lucky) raise spread over 6 years. Well, enjoy. But, I think you'll probably have to delay plans for the villa in the south of France. Maybe inflation won't eat it all up the first year or so, and you'll be able to buy an extra gallon of gas or two with your net raise.

At my current pay rate, I will get an additional $1.24/hr. So, for an 80 hour month, I will get an additional $99.20 before taxes. However, since they are taking incentive pay away let's subtract the $61.80 additional that I would have collected for that last 10 hours. Gee, an additional $37.40/month. That's over $1.00/day!

Oh, and then there are the soon to be astonishing increases in the medical premiums, deductibles and out of pocket expenses. Just my annual deductible alone is increasing $600. So that means I'm already in the hole to the tune of $152, and I haven't seen the medical premium yet--purported to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $200/mo for employee only..

 

[IORFA]

With the term sheet you want, it will be even worse than what you are purporting to be so bad with the LBFO and probably for as long or longer, that is what I don't get. At least by going to the road show you could ask questions and get actuall facts to spread instead of galley gossip and untruths. Good luck with your personal well being after any vote outcome. I get the feeling that you are so far past return that no matter what the outcome you will be completely upset forever unable to see the glass half full.

 

[jimntx]

With the term sheet you want, it will be even worse than what you are purporting to be so bad with the LBFO and probably for as long or longer, that is what I don't get. At least by going to the road show you could ask questions and get actuall facts to spread instead of galley gossip and untruths. Good luck with your personal well being after any vote outcome. I get the feeling that you are so far past return that no matter what the outcome you will be completely upset forever unable to see the glass half full.

You have no idea how long the term sheet terms would be in effect because under the RLA, the company would have to return to the bargaining table. OH, I'm so glad you are here to teach me how to live. Dearie, I could retire tomorrow and notice hardly a blip in my net disposable income. This job pays for almost nothing in my life. If you want to be like sheep and think you have no other choice but to vote yes, then vote yes. Enjoy the hell you are going to be put through.

 

[Lloyd Grey]

I wouldn't bet this poll is even approximately accurate.

 

[WorldTraveler]

thanks for the info on why the non-dues paying number of FAs is so large. Any prognostications on what that does for the vote?

 

[IORFA]

That's my point jimntx, you have no idea either, although I get from your posts that you think it will be less than 6 years. Which I say HA. Good luck with that. AA and the feet dragging will begin immediately. But you're right, like always. Facts be damned. Plus I don't care how you live I am just guessing that you will be forever in a shitty mood, like on here the last many years. If it works for you, great.

Worldtraveler, back to the dues, you don't have to have dues check off. You can also do monthly payments that APFA sends a bill to you for. I would guess that most have signed the dues check off cards, just because it is easier. Some don't because they are trying to prove a point. All the other info was correct. Also, you can only be fired for dues arrears from ACTIVE service.

 

[jersey777]

thanks for the info on why the non-dues paying number of FAs is so large. Any prognostications on what that does for the vote?

That would be hard to tell. One correction, it is not that there are so many flight attendants not paying dues. The 3000 number is the amount in dues ARREARS...which means they cannot vote unless they become current before the vote. The union has encouraged this but the apathy among the flight attendant ranks can be just appalling. They might regret this if we live under the term sheet because my guess is that changes would happen immediately and that warn letters will shortly go out. If I had to guess the sentiment among the active flight attendants then I would say the vote is going to very very close. For some strange reason, it seems the most junior ones that are subject to furlough seem to be the most NO voters.

 

[jimntx]

That's my point jimntx, you have no idea either, although I get from your posts that you think it will be less than 6 years. Which I say HA. Good luck with that. AA and the feet dragging will begin immediately. But you're right, like always. Facts be damned. Plus I don't care how you live I am just guessing that you will be forever in a shitty mood, like on here the last many years. If it works for you, great.

Worldtraveler, back to the dues, you don't have to have dues check off. You can also do monthly payments that APFA sends a bill to you for. I would guess that most have signed the dues check off cards, just because it is easier. Some don't because they are trying to prove a point. All the other info was correct. Also, you can only be fired for dues arrears from ACTIVE service.

Actually, I have a wonderful life and am very happy. Unlike senior f/as who seem to think that the rest of us should roll over and play dead for their benefit. As far as facts be damned, considering how you like to overlook facts and explain away facts that you don't happen to like, it's rather pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?

Junior f/as can do math and we see easily that with the loss of incentive pay and the increase in deductions, we are going to be losing money big time while working more. May be crazy, but we ain't stupid.

At least the pilots showed some cojones--by a WIDE margin.

 

[WorldTraveler]

At least the pilots showed some cojones--by a WIDE margin.

and we'll have to see the implications of the APA vote on the APFA vote.... presumably the judge will also rule on AMR's request for the pilots before FA voting closes?

 

[IORFA]

Man, you don't do anything here but constantly complain. I would have bet money your non work life was hell for you as well. They way you are on here I would assume that your blood pressure is really high and that your stress levels are through the roof. Any ulcers? By the way, you have no idea if I'm senior, junior or middle of the road. Your rant about losing incentive pay and increased deductions goes for the term sheet as well, plus no wage increases or any other monetary incentive. So that is ok? Sounds stupid to me, but I guess I can't do your form of fuzzy math to justify how that is better.
Re the pilots, yes they put up a fight, but they potentially pissed away a billion dollars and they just allowed AA to outsource up to 88 seat a/c all the while still working more, still stuck with crappy work rules in general and even worse ones on the a-319 and now no wage increases. They sound as smart to me as you do. At least with them, I really don't care. That is their fight. With all the incorrect info you regurgitate, I'm still not convinced you read any of the info. You are the prime candidate that NEEDS to go to the road show to listen to facts and actually ask the correct people questions and get correct answers. No skin off my back, either way at least I, like you don't need this job to survive. If people are smart enough to vote their job away, that is their right. I would just like it to be the least amount of shitty possible. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[flybynite]

Just a question about the term sheet. Do you still keep your Scope protections with the term sheet?

 

[eolesen]

.... presumably the judge will also rule on AMR's request for the pilots before FA voting closes?

Hard to tell. Management could ask or the judge could just wait another week so that there's no claim that the voting was influenced anymore than it already may be.

 

[eolesen]

Just a question about the term sheet. Do you still keep your Scope protections with the term sheet?

Scope in the sense of outsourcing isn't explicitly mentioned in the contact, so which protections are you asking about?

 

[jimntx]

Hard to tell. Management could ask or the judge could just wait another week so that there's no claim that the voting was influenced anymore than it already may be.

Last I read, Judge Lane said he is not going to grant another continuation...that he will rule on the 15th, up or down. However, the company has said that they will wait until the votes are counted by the APFA. If the LBFO passes, the company will not abrogate the contract--well, anymore than the LBFO already does for them.