AA drops MRTC, while JB adds it

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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Jetblue will be removing a row in the aft section of the plane to add 2 inches to the legroom in that section. Heres a idea for AA. Lets add a row only aft of the window exits and lets keep the MRTC in the FWD where our FF like to sit in coach. We could do it to all the planes to add seats, yet keep a plus for our prized customers.
 

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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On 7/3/2003 9:36:25 AM FA Mikey wrote:

Jetblue will be removing a row in the aft section of the plane to add 2 inches to the legroom in that section. Heres a idea for AA. Lets add a row only aft of the window exits and lets keep the MRTC in the FWD where our FF like to sit in coach. We could do it to all the planes to add seats, yet keep a plus for our prized customers.

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I agree with you completely.

I strongly suspect that AA will either do what you describe or will leave MRTC alone since UAL has not made any announcements to eliminate any of its E+.
 

buzzkill

Member
May 2, 2003
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On 7/3/2003 9:56:22 AM FWAAA wrote:

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On 7/3/2003 9:36:25 AM FA Mikey wrote:

Jetblue will be removing a row in the aft section of the plane to add 2 inches to the legroom in that section. Heres a idea for AA. Lets add a row only aft of the window exits and lets keep the MRTC in the FWD where our FF like to sit in coach. We could do it to all the planes to add seats, yet keep a plus for our prized customers.

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I agree with you completely.

I strongly suspect that AA will either do what you describe or will leave MRTC alone since UAL has not made any announcements to eliminate any of its E+.

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I think the reason AA didn''t do this when they did MRTC was for operational issues. Feedback from the flight attendants was that it would be difficult to control people from sitting in MR seats when they did not meet the "prized customer" definition.

More important, there was a weight and balance concern. On many leisure flights, the weight would be shifted to the back of the airplane, causing more operational issues.

I''m sure there were other reasons as well. I''m not defending the reasoning, just sharing what the reasoning was.
 

AAviator

Veteran
Nov 12, 2002
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I think jetblue did this for a couple of reasons. Guessing here.

After the CLT midwest express crash, didn''t the FAA put new passenger weight guidelines into effect? I know from talking to some jetblue guys I know, that making the west coast from JFK in the wintertime is pretty, well lets just say, interesting. Landing in LGB with 3k F.O.B. sucks. Increase pax weight = less fuel on board to be below max T/O weight.

Also, isn''t there some kind of disabilities act requireing the to get a wheelchair on the A/C? The same guys I know said they needed to come up with a way to be in compliance with the law.

Its going to cost them revenue, what ever the reason.
 

MAH4546

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Aug 22, 2002
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jetBlue has been looking into and wanting to do this for many years. They are doing this to remove row 27. Row 27 does not recline and the seats are much more narrower than the other aircraft. They receive many customer complaints about this row and are getting rid of it. Also, because they do not have wheelchair storage, when someone comes with a carry on wheel chair, half of Row 27 (EGF) is designated to hold a wheel chair, and on a full flight it means three unhappy customers will have to wait for the next one. Though that will no longer be the case. Also, as has been stated, new weight regulations would have put limits on jetBlue''s FLL/IAD/JFK transcons (FLL-OAK is next, BTW) and by removing the seats they simply won''t have to worry about it. The MRTC will only apply to roughly 2/3 the airplane because they could not move the exit row seats. Seats in front of the exit row will still feature 32" seat pitch. Also, jetBlue yield is up, and they can more afford to loose the six revenue passengers per flight. Though in the end, no matter what the reason, this is a strong move for jetBlue.
 

Flyboy4u

Veteran
Oct 6, 2002
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Why can''t AA get it?..Value it''s employees who will value AA''s customers,in return will send more customers AA''s way.........It''s not rocket science it''s jut a way of doing business ie...LUV and Jet Blue.. It''s the way of business now , and not the corporate way it used to be....Nobody can blame management because this is the way it USED to be....Not any more!!! The APFA understand and unfortunately some of us have had to pay the price, but in the end the compay will suffer, which it already has thanks to the many cancelled flights (July 2 to manning shortage), " For those of you affected by these reductions, please know APFA looks forward to welcoming you back and we wish you well during your time away. "......The psot 9/11 era has arrived and passengers know it....Give Value and Amenities at an "Affordable Price" and you will profit in the end.....
 

AAmech

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Aug 22, 2002
766
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I think MRTC is awesome but the facts show leisure passengers really don''t care if its there or not. I think some customers would crawl into an overhead bin if the price was cheap enough!
It appears that it is operational issues driving this at JB. Sometimes your really limited on how you can configure a cabin to meet your needs and I guess they figure they can eat the loss of six seats revenue. But it won''t surprise me if (like AA) they go back in in the future when JB is more mature and its costs have started to rise.
 

AAmech

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
766
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On 7/3/2003 11:26:34 PM Flyboy4u wrote:


Why can''t AA get it?..Value it''s employees who will value AA''s customers,in return will send more customers AA''s way.........It''s not rocket science it''s jut a way of doing business ie...LUV and Jet Blue.. It''s the way of business now , and not the corporate way it used to be....Nobody can blame management because this is the way it USED to be....Not any more!!! The APFA understand and unfortunately some of us have had to pay the price, but in the end the compay will suffer, which it already has thanks to the many cancelled flights (July 2 to manning shortage), " For those of you affected by these reductions, please know APFA looks forward to welcoming you back and we wish you well during your time away. "......The psot 9/11 era has arrived and passengers know it....Give Value and Amenities at an "Affordable Price" and you will profit in the end.....

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Flyboy what are you talking about? AA''s flights are bursting at the seams right now! Load Factors are at record levels. Including flights where AA goes head to head with JB. AA also does very well in customer surveys about their flight attendants and other front line personel. AA''s two main problems are costs and customer perception that AA cost more to fly than JB and WN. I don''t know whats happening where you work. Maybe there are some legitemate gripes. But from what I''ve seen in my time at AA is that there''s no shortage of WHINY employees. Unfortunatly I think a lot of the laid off ones are now relizing what a really great job they had!
 

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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Silly me! I thought JB was so successful because of the service and the TV and the fares. I wonder why Southwest hasn''t thought of MRTC!

Will JB remove seats on the regional jets to make every 10 people feel like they are their private jet?
 

TWAnr

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Aug 19, 2002
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On 7/4/2003 12:43:33 PM AAmech wrote:




But from what I've seen in my time at AA is that there's no shortage of WHINY employees. Unfortunatly I think a lot of the laid off ones are now relizing what a really great job they had!​
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Tell that to Patrick O'Keeffe, the acting VP of Flight Service:

Title: Changes Have Been Whirlwind in Flight Service


Hi! This is Patrick O'Keeffe with a Flight Service Update for July 3, 2003.

This weekend is already shaping up to be a challenging operation. You may also notice flight attendant-qualified managers working trips this weekend due to the large amount of open time that is currently available. Many trips will operate at FAA minimums. For those of you impacted by the staffing shortages, I apologize. As we work to restore our airline to financial stability, it is very important that we avoid canceling trips because of staffing issues. Option 2 is open and available to flight attendants interested in picking up some extra time. We expect to return to normal coverage levels over the weekend.

What was left out of his hotline is that trips are being extended, reserves are forced to fly on duty free periods and line holders who answer the phone are being drafted to work trips that are not in their lines on their days off.
 

MAH4546

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Aug 22, 2002
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On 7/4/2003 12:52:16 PM AAmech wrote:

But it won''t surprise me if (like AA) they go back in in the future when JB is more mature and its costs have started to rise.

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If it were not for the new FAA weight restrictions, then I doubt they would be doing this. Thier 320s are restricted enough doing transcons, and the new ones might have caused them to leave some passengers. They won''t be putting seats back anytime. While the increased seat pitch is an added benefit and they will obviously advertise it, this is change is based on mechanical and FAA issues.
 

Busdrvr

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Aug 20, 2002
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"They receive many customer complaints about this row and are getting rid of it. Also, because they do not have wheelchair storage, when someone comes with a carry on wheel chair, half of Row 27 (EGF) is designated to hold a wheel chair, and on a full flight it means three unhappy customers will have to wait for the next one."

Does your amplifier go to 11? Where do you think row 26 will be? Within an inch or so of 27? The A320 was certified to over 174 seats (I think). Jblu could have simply cut room by 1/4 inch (or even 1/8 inch) in all the other rows and moved row 27 forward. As for DB''s for wheelchairs, JBlu has been averaging around 4 per month (compared to 27,000 at SWA who fly''s ten times as many RPM''s). I don''t think 4 unhappy customers per month justifies the removal.
 

Diesel8

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Aug 19, 2002
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The removal of row 27 has been on he drawing board before the W/C and the new FAA weights. As far as transcons, one could easily cap the number of pax and leave the seats in. The wt and balance is not that big an issue, on a day to day basis.

Pax loves more room, now you can get it and a low fare, sounds pretty good!

As far as AA being as cheap as B6, that would be a somewhat wrong statement. AA is as cheap as jetBlue, but only on selected routes, the ones that they compete on, otherwise, AA still charges a hefty premium.
Have not checked lately, but I would think AA to LAX is more than AA to LGB.

Just checked fares on july 15 and returning the 20th. AA jfk-lax $2117, jfk-lgb $327. $1800, that's quite a difference