Aa Pilots Union To Open Talks

[AMFAMAN]

The only way we could have stopped what has happened to this industry is had we stayed together, all of us, as ONE group. Then if one walked, we all walked....regardless of whether it was pilots, ramp, f/a's, etc. Now they are picking us off one at a time. Look at the EU to see how it works.

Well NWA unions had the chance to do just that but politics are more important than unionism. I agree that it needs to be all airlines but when you can't get one airline like NWA to do it, you will never get all.

 

[Bear96]

And, yes, each union should look out for their own members, but should not ask the company to have their members get a non rev boarding priority for themselves and wives and kids just because they have stripes on their jackets!

Well, I am not aware that that is what they are asking for, or have asked for in the past (those same rumors were going around a few years ago at UA too), but in general, what is wrong with trying to get extra perks?

They make more money "just because they have stripes on their jackets," don't they?

Or are you saying all airline employees should make the same salary, from pilots on down to cabin cleaners?

 

[Hopeful]

Well, I am not aware that that is what they are asking for, or have asked for in the past (those same rumors were going around a few years ago at UA too), but in general, what is wrong with trying to get extra perks?

They make more money "just because they have stripes on their jackets," don't they?

Or are you saying all airline employees should make the same salary, from pilots on down to cabin cleaners?

REREAD MY POST JACKASS!

I never said anything about compensation. I said they always got a bigger piece of the pie!


And they did want to get boarding priority because they are pilots!

 

[Bear96]

REREAD MY POST JACKASS!

I never said anything about compensation. I said they always got a bigger piece of the pie!

I see reading comprehension isn't your strong point. My point, too, is that they always get a bigger piece of the pie. So if you know that as well, why does it seem to surprise you when they ask for something other employees don't have?

Now let's take it one step further. Dig into that powerful brain of yours and try to think that maybe there is a REASON why pilots are more highly compensated than other airline workers.

(Oh and if you are saying compensation is different from "a piece of the pie," could you please define your terms? Because the two terms seem pretty interchangeable to me.)

 

[Bagbelt]

The pilots are notorious for NOT supporting anyone, they allways have been. The problem with the labor movement in this country is that most people are unwilling to stake more than five mins. of their time to do more than take a dump. Going back to an earlier post, there is no possible way to compete with people who are willing to work for a tenth of what you make around the world. The strengh of this country isn't measured by how big a flag we can make for the superbowl half time show. It's how we treat our own people, and civic pride. And in that we are failing miserably. In Europe it would be unthinkable to watch as workers were crushed by judicial fiat. Here it comes on the news after the weather.

 

[cheaper2rent]

The difference is the Pilot's Sacred Cow is worth 100 times everyone else's!

The PGBC would come close to covering my Sacred Cow. I cannot even take a lump sum option like the Pilot can. SO there is BIG DIIFFERENCE.

Therefore, the Pilot's should be willing to sacrifice the most!

From an outsider looking in TWU, you should cover your own butt. Your job is being outsourced to cheap labor at almost every airline and it will happen at AA as well. If it all goes away they can get jobs at other airlines, you probably cannot.

 

[Hopeful]

I can understand the pilots' union looking to protect their members. That's what a union is supposed to do. But the arrogance of the APA to insist that the TWU and APFA also give more to perserve their interests is beyond belief.

They recouped a good portion of their concessions in pay, and now they're Insisting the rest of us give more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's see how far the APA is going to bend over to perserve that lump sump pay out at retirement!

PILOTS HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE MOST. THE REST OF US HAVE THE LEAST TO LOSE BECAUSE WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN RAPED AND PILLAGED!

 

[nostradamus]

Management will not be very creative. They will use the divide and conquer method, used for centuries.

Phase one: Propaganda. Let all the employees and press know how much the pilots make, spread rumors that other work groups will be funding the pilots retirement with wage cuts. Make everyone think they will be able to keep their job and hint that their wages will be only reduced slightly if we can just get those “greedy pilotsâ€￾ to give up a lot. Make the pilot supervisors and instructors be the cheerleaders by making false promises, threats and spread rumors about new airplanes on the property.

Phase two: Threats. They will threaten to give back airplanes, close stations and sell assets. They are going to do this anyway so they might as well blame the pilots in the process.

Phase three: Get the axe out. Give back airplanes, close stations and sell assets, “we did not want to but those greedy pilots made us do it.â€￾

Phase four: Threaten bankruptcy until the pilots give in, make them think there will be only wage cuts and the pension will be ok.

Phase five: Pilots agree to new contract.

Phase six: Declare bankruptcy, pensions to PBGC.

Phase seven: Go after all the other work groups and cut their contracts to shreds, They will blame this on the pilots. “If only those greedy pilots would of acted more quickly we would not be doing this to you.

And the beat goes on.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I have heard that the pilots are willing to give a lot, but insist on two conditions: Pension untouched and priority boarding on pass travel.

 

[Bagbelt]

I think there are a lot more important issues for the pilots than pass travel. To give up scope and whatever just to get on a full flight easier seems crazy.

 

[SVQLBA]

The only way we could have stopped what has happened to this industry is had we stayed together, all of us, as ONE group. Then if one walked, we all walked....regardless of whether it was pilots, ramp, f/a's, etc. Now they are picking us off one at a time. Look at the EU to see how it works.

Re: the EU. Huh? Trade unionism in general is much stronger across the water, despite Thatcher in the UK in the 80s. Just look at how the ramp workers shut down BA in sympathy for their colleagues at Gate Gourmet. Somehow can't see that happening this side of the pond.

Not sure how the salaries compare precisely, but I bet they are at least comparable and with state-provided healthcare, 4-weeks vacation (in Germany its probably 5 or 6), etc, I think EU employment conditions look very good from the employee point of view.

There's been an undercurrent on these boards for a while (e.g., on MRO outsourcing) viewing the EU as some sort of bargain-basement, third-world set of countries offering employment at rock-bottom wages. While there may be some (fast evaporating) pockets of cheap labor in Eastern Europe, in general this is definitely not true. Any reductions in salary that there may have been have been the results of tough negotiations, not ram-rodding via Ch. 11. (No Ch. 11 equivalent in Europe -- both Swissair and Sabena and a host of smaller carriers had to say Sayonara.)

The EU's not perfect and they have their own pension issues looming, but FLY, you're way off the mark on this one ... unless I completely misunderstood what you meant by your comment.

 

[Bagbelt]

I think you completly misunderstood. Not arguing for or against social democracy but the fact is our companies get away with far more crap then they would in Europe. The publics toleration there for cutting bene's so "we" become more competitve is far lower too.

 

[Mach85ER]

And, yes, each union should look out for their own members, but should not ask the company to have their members get a non rev boarding priority for themselves and wives and kids just because they have stripes on their jackets!

I think the subject of nonrev priority for pilots has been beaten to death here. One would have to be some sort of a village idiot to keep regurgitating the same bullet points that were passed out by AMR on the subject almost 10 years ago.

But then again, if your village fits. 😛


On another subject, would any of the non-pilot AMR posters present please tell us how their salary ranks compared to other US airlines, LCC's included?

 

[SVQLBA]

I think you completly misunderstood. Not arguing for or against social democracy but the fact is our companies get away with far more crap then they would in Europe. The publics toleration there for cutting bene's so "we" become more competitve is far lower too.

Baggie

Re-reading FLY's statement I can see your interpretation of FLY's comments -- I may have grabbed firmly hold of the wrong end of the stick. Maybe because of some of the other anti-EU comments that have been cropping up in places.

 

[AMFAMAN]

On another subject, would any of the non-pilot AMR posters present please tell us how their salary ranks compared to other US airlines, LCC's included?

Closer to the bottom for AMT's. SWA is almost $10/hr more. We are even with Alaskan, very close with Jet Blue. I have heard even with Frontier, $12/hr less than UPS. Don't have the complete list anymore, site that had it is not working.