AA Seniority after LCC Buyout
- Thread starter gasman
- Start date
+1
Facts and logic appear to confuse the OP (and several others here).
facts and logic vs what? facts are that they can, and have been, misrepresented to justify behavior that was/is less than stellar? logic vs. what...that there's been no refutation regarding the ethics of this entire history.
Please tell us what facts are wrong and how that logically applies. I note that nothing was said about Reno....where are the facts and logic wrong there.
Interesting that when the discussion comes closer to the reality of the situation, the AA folk immediately deny what is patently true....it was wrong, always will be wrong and shooting the messengers won't work in the future.
The future is now and whatever your justifications are they're no longer valid.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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Basically only a few facts...
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, if (IF) an AA/US merger happens seniority integration will be based on either the law or where the same union represents both sides that union's merger policy.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, an arbitrator (if one is involved) won't undo previous seniority integrations to right past wrongs.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, an election to select which union will represent the group going forward will be held for any group where a different union represents the employees on each side.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, such an election will be decided by 50%+1 of those voting. I have no idea what the breakdown of the AA groups are, but the sheer numbers indicate that where two unions are involved the AA unions would likely win.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, any representational elections won't change the seniority integration process (although that's never been tested in court).
Jim
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, if (IF) an AA/US merger happens seniority integration will be based on either the law or where the same union represents both sides that union's merger policy.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, an arbitrator (if one is involved) won't undo previous seniority integrations to right past wrongs.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, an election to select which union will represent the group going forward will be held for any group where a different union represents the employees on each side.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, such an election will be decided by 50%+1 of those voting. I have no idea what the breakdown of the AA groups are, but the sheer numbers indicate that where two unions are involved the AA unions would likely win.
- Regardless of who did what to whom in the past, any representational elections won't change the seniority integration process (although that's never been tested in court).
Jim
no question those are absolute facts....however, because they're "facts" does not make them right. My issue, and I assume the issue of the TWA flight attendants (I wouldn't presume to speak for the other work groups, though I can darned well speak from personal experience) is that AA flight attendants (and by virtue of their chosen representational group APFA) acted unethically and unfairly and continues to justify their behavior with lies.
No question those absolute facts may prevail...and then again, after the Midwest flight attendants win in a US Appeals Court, perhaps they won't. But the "fact" remains that when you act as APFA and it's membership did, and continue to justify your behavior, you're living a lie. Plain and simple.
No question those absolute facts may prevail...and then again, after the Midwest flight attendants win in a US Appeals Court, perhaps they won't. But the "fact" remains that when you act as APFA and it's membership did, and continue to justify your behavior, you're living a lie. Plain and simple.
It doesn't matter if the APFA members will burn in hell for their transgressions - none of what you have posted in this thread changes the fact that the stapling wished upon the APFA by the OP and others cannot happen precisely because the TWA FAs got the law changed. This thread contains lotsa nonsense about stapling, but the fact is, it won't happen again, no matter how much nonsense the OP and others post.
true...and since I have no idea whether you're a flight attendant for AA, or employed in another capacity I can only tell you that the assumption was made, and continues to be made, that the TWA flight attendants should just shut up and live with it.
Were that valid, blacks in our country in the 60's wouldn't have marched for their freedom many years after being told they should know their place and stick to it....women would never have achieved the vote because they certainly couldn't know what was best for them...and countless other groups who wouldn't just live with and accept discrimination and lack of justice would have gone silently into history.
The misunderstanding is this: we should be "grateful" we have a job, we were paid exorbitantly more (read Mark's post above) , and our airline had three bankruptcys and AA "rescued" us.The TWA flight attendants will not let you (collectively, AA) forget what was done to us. Never. Ever. A wrong is a wrong is a wrong. Period. Or as a good friend of mine used to say and which applies to yourself and other AA people here... "don't confuse me with facts..my mind is already made up".
'nuff said from me.
Conniegirl
I'm not employed by AA in any capacity. Someone came a'trollin spewing nonsense about an impending stapling and I posted facts. Nothing more, nothing less. Others came along posting inaccurate nonsense about me being wrong. They were wrong, and as usual, my posts were correct (I am wrong sometimes, but not in this thread). Others came along with rambling, incoherent, nonsensical rants about the AA acquisition of the TWA assets, as if that had anything to do with the OP's incorrect posts about stapling.
I cried on September 11, 2001, for many reasons, including what I knew would happen to many of the former TWA employees. I cried again as they were furloughed. But none of that matters to a discussion based on sheer nonsense - from a troll who hoped to (and managed to) stir up a rehash of what has become very old news.
Stapling won't happen again. Not to any airline employee. Not to the APFA, not to the US FAs when US and AA combine.
I cried on September 11, 2001, for many reasons, including what I knew would happen to many of the former TWA employees. I cried again as they were furloughed. But none of that matters to a discussion based on sheer nonsense - from a troll who hoped to (and managed to) stir up a rehash of what has become very old news.
Stapling won't happen again. Not to any airline employee. Not to the APFA, not to the US FAs when US and AA combine.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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Well, I can come up with situations where an arbitrator might well staple one group below another, but not in any AA/US merger.
I'll honest admit that I know nothing of the integration of Midwest FA's in the Republic/Frontier/Midwest integration. I can only assume that the FA's ended up in arbitration like the pilots, and that the arbitrator put furloughed below active which put the Midwest FA's underneath the Republic and all or nearly all the Frontier FA's. If that's the case, courts are loathe to upset an arbitrator's apple cart.
Jim
signals
Veteran
There's a first time for everything. I need to come into the box because rumors are running rampant and you're actually turning into the LUSers before anything is official. You are a Parker and TT's dream come true. You sound like you already drank the Kool Ade! Warring factions...he can start a collection. He can divide-and-conquer for another ten years at least, and pocket the raises!
From the sandcastle will come the sandfleas, and wait until you meet freedom. He is
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-US Air's answer to Delta's WT.
This hasn't even gone to the courts yet, and the marriage is finalized. And now a past bitterness come out, and apparently revenge is hoping you become USeless Airways???
The eagle is crying because you are surrendering to a White Flag!
But lets say you get your wish...
How many TWA employees work for AA? Were their former unions, er, ah, I don't know, AFA or ALPA or a non-AA union? Did you count these people in your figures? What about those unhappy with your in house unions?
Perhaps we will see the equivalent to Desert Storm where U didn't see it coming.
So lets continue to speculate and turn this into yet another US Boredom union fight, because TT is drooling
*For those unfamiliar with the terms, you need to learn your US Trailways lingo!
I am not stirring the pot...I'm stirring the kettle
From the sandcastle will come the sandfleas, and wait until you meet freedom. He is
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-US Air's answer to Delta's WT.
This hasn't even gone to the courts yet, and the marriage is finalized. And now a past bitterness come out, and apparently revenge is hoping you become USeless Airways???
The eagle is crying because you are surrendering to a White Flag!
But lets say you get your wish...
How many TWA employees work for AA? Were their former unions, er, ah, I don't know, AFA or ALPA or a non-AA union? Did you count these people in your figures? What about those unhappy with your in house unions?
Perhaps we will see the equivalent to Desert Storm where U didn't see it coming.
So lets continue to speculate and turn this into yet another US Boredom union fight, because TT is drooling
*For those unfamiliar with the terms, you need to learn your US Trailways lingo!
I am not stirring the pot...I'm stirring the kettle
There's a first time for everything. I need to come into the box because rumors are running rampant and you're actually turning into the LUSers before anything is official. You are a Parker and TT's dream come true. You sound like you already drank the Kool Ade! Warring factions...he can start a collection. He can divide-and-conquer for another ten years at least, and pocket the raises!
From the sandcastle will come the sandfleas, and wait until you meet freedom. He is
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-US Air's answer to Delta's WT.
This hasn't even gone to the courts yet, and the marriage is finalized. And now a past bitterness come out, and apparently revenge is hoping you become USeless Airways???
The eagle is crying because you are surrendering to a White Flag!
But lets say you get your wish...
How many TWA employees work for AA? Were their former unions, er, ah, I don't know, AFA or ALPA or a non-AA union? Did you count these people in your figures? What about those unhappy with your in house unions?
Perhaps we will see the equivalent to Desert Storm where U didn't see it coming.
So lets continue to speculate and turn this into yet another US Boredom union fight, because TT is drooling
*For those unfamiliar with the terms, you need to learn your US Trailways lingo!
I am not stirring the pot...I'm stirring the kettle
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Wow Signals you sound a little bitter. Or maybe just tired, hungry and drunk. You'll feel better after a good nights rest.
From the sandcastle will come the sandfleas, and wait until you meet freedom. He is
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-US Air's answer to Delta's WT.
This hasn't even gone to the courts yet, and the marriage is finalized. And now a past bitterness come out, and apparently revenge is hoping you become USeless Airways???
The eagle is crying because you are surrendering to a White Flag!
But lets say you get your wish...
How many TWA employees work for AA? Were their former unions, er, ah, I don't know, AFA or ALPA or a non-AA union? Did you count these people in your figures? What about those unhappy with your in house unions?
Perhaps we will see the equivalent to Desert Storm where U didn't see it coming.
So lets continue to speculate and turn this into yet another US Boredom union fight, because TT is drooling
*For those unfamiliar with the terms, you need to learn your US Trailways lingo!
I am not stirring the pot...I'm stirring the kettle
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Wow Signals you sound a little bitter. Or maybe just tired, hungry and drunk. You'll feel better after a good nights rest.
signals
Veteran
Actually I came out of my temporary IHATEUS! I think AA should learn the lingo since US is going to marry them
Good point. I suppose it's possible that an arbitrator might staple a workgroup in the future. I would submit that in that case, it would not be a staple, but instead would be an "equitable" integration.
This ruling addresses the Midwest/Republic situation and any future integration issues that may arise.
http://calafa.org/industry-news/flight-attendant-union-wins-seniority-protections-for-flight-attendants/
