AA Seniority after LCC Buyout

[gasman]

Nobody will get stapled if another merger happens. The former TWA f/a's fought to make sure it would never happen again. So gas bud, you just need to take a hike, have a beer and go to sleep.

Yes, the former TWA f/as were the ones who fought to make this happen. This now protects AA employees. This protects the ones who stapled the TWA f/as to begin with, so the question remains, how are the AA f/s going to show their appreciation for their, meaning AAs, very own portection? Will they continue to be ungrateful and allow the TWA f/as to be harmed by this protection, by keeping them stapled? If so, why?

 

[Maark767]

Yes, the former TWA f/as were the ones who fought to make this happen. This now protects AA employees. This protects the ones who stapled the TWA f/as to begin with, so the question remains, how are the AA f/s going to show their appreciation for their, meaning AAs, very own portection? Will they continue to be ungrateful and allow the TWA f/as to be harmed by this protection, by keeping them stapled? If so, why?

TWA was days from going out of business. How soon we forget. The TWA f/as got every goodie in the APFA contract including a 100% pay raise, 6 weeks of vacation etc. They did not get bidding seniority. Better good deal for people whos futures were uncertain.

 

[gasman]

TWA was days from going out of business. How soon we forget. The TWA f/as got every goodie in the APFA contract including a 100% pay raise, 6 weeks of vacation etc. They did not get bidding seniority. Better good deal for people whos futures were uncertain.

The same thing can be said regarding the AA employees " Better good deal for people whos futures were uncertain"!

P.S TWA filed Chapter 11 which AA pushed for regarding TWA going into BK. That was part of their deal. So, really there isn't a difference here!

 

[conniegirl]

TWA was days from going out of business. How soon we forget. The TWA f/as got every goodie in the APFA contract including a 100% pay raise, 6 weeks of vacation etc. They did not get bidding seniority. Better good deal for people whos futures were uncertain.

I reiterate:

"6 weeks vacation, a 100% pay raise."..etc., etc. doesn't do much when one is on the unemployment line. And...a 100% pay raise? C'mon now - THAT'S a bit of an exaggeration, no?

That" better good deal for people whose futures were uncertain" could certainly be said about the AA folk now. Let's see what happens to y'all when the Bankruptcy judge has finished with the whole deal. Might be a bit of a humbling experience.

 

[wrencher]

TWA was days from going out of business. How soon we forget. The TWA f/as got every goodie in the APFA contract including a 100% pay raise, 6 weeks of vacation etc. They did not get bidding seniority. Better good deal for people whos futures were uncertain.

Mark 767 I hope people like you are not in my group, you've got alot of growing up to do but oh you will, it's comeing brotha

 

[jimntx]

Who has more f/as isn't the issue. The aquiring carrier and their own union would work out the agreement between both parties, meaning the aquiring company and it's union regarding stapling/non stapling position they would take. If both parties, meaning both union f/a.s cannot come to an agreement regarding seniority then the McCaskill-Bond bill applys, thanks to the former TWA f/as for that insurance card. .

No, you are wrong. If the similar work groups have different unions, as is the case with AA and LCC, the LAW requires that a representation election be held. APFA members would easily outvote the AFA members. But, then your mind is obviously made up; so, don't let facts confuse you.

 

[nbmcg01]

Mark 767 I hope people like you are not in my group, you've got alot of growing up to do but oh you will, it's comeing brotha

Mark 767, I don't know where you got your figures. I posted my W2s for my last year at TWA and my first year at AA. Pretty even, plus I lost the 401k contribution (14%). Plus, my free medical going to a pay for medical took away from that dollar per hour increase. I had to fly more due to the work rules and yes there was a few more vacation days (I was at max) and we were at straight rate (sure made trading easier, no red light, green light) Our work rules were more f/a friendly and your dollar per hour was greater UNTIL 2003. No one knows what would have happened to TWA. I think all of us would like to turn the clock back and see.

What the AA folks CHOOSE to disregard is the fact that the last TWA bk was orchastrated by AA to make the acquisition easier in the eyes of the Gov. Abrogate contracts AND SCOPE...hummmmm, think it can't happen?

How many f/as are there @ USAIR? East and West, active, non active? ALL will be able to vote and add the former TWA f/as, active and non active to that number. Just curious...

 

[nbmcg01]

Mark 767, I don't know where you got your figures. I posted my W2s for my last year at TWA and my first year at AA. Pretty even, plus I lost the 401k contribution (14%). Plus, my free medical going to a pay for medical took away from that dollar per hour increase. I had to fly more due to the work rules and yes there was a few more vacation days (I was at max) and we were at straight rate (sure made trading easier, no red light, green light) Our work rules were more f/a friendly and your dollar per hour was greater UNTIL 2003. No one knows what would have happened to TWA. I think all of us would like to turn the clock back and see.

What the AA folks CHOOSE to disregard is the fact that the last TWA bk was orchastrated by AA to make the acquisition easier in the eyes of the Gov. Abrogate contracts AND SCOPE...hummmmm, think it can't happen?

How many f/as are there @ USAIR? East and West, active, non active? ALL will be able to vote and add the former TWA f/as, active and non active to that number. Just curious...

And considering how much has been lost (some have been gone 10 years and are still being charged for union dues), no amount of pay increase can offset the losses. How much is YOUR career worth?

 

[conniegirl]

And considering how much has been lost (some have been gone 10 years and are still being charged for union dues), no amount of pay increase can offset the losses. How much is YOUR career worth?

Nancy:

I think Mark is like so many of the AA people....and, in fairness, like so many of all us. Galley gossip and hearsay has replaced the reality of facts, and to be fair, that's understandable. APFA is not a Union known for revealing the truth about anything, and it worked to their advantage to support unethical behavior because that's what the membership wanted to believe. They will fight to the death to support the idea that TWA was in bankruptcy a third time, denying court papers and records that prove that the bankruptcy was demanded by AA in order to rid us of Karabu (Ican's ticket scam).

Would we have survived? Would we have downsized and made it past 9/11? Who knows at this point, but to use that as an excuse for anti-Union unethical behavior is unfortunate at best, and sadly lacking in principles at the very least.

I'm convinced that deep down in all of us is that little germ of knowledge about right and wrong. How much easier is it to deny that, when you behave in a manner that you truly know is wrong? What was done to the TWA people was wrong. If it wasn't due to that, why were the Reno flight attendants stapled also? Was their Co. in "bankruptcy"? Were they a "failing carrier". No...they were stapled because the AA people could, and did. No other reason.It could be urban legend but all of us on 'this side" have heard the story about the AA pilot, who when asked why APA did what they did to our pilots, replied "because we could". "Because we could" is not an excuse...the AA people know it, deep down, and we know they know it.

The universe is a funny thing....many times (perhaps not often enough, if you look at someone like Hitler or Idi Amin) it rights itself and shakes down back to basics to level the playing field. That's what has happened here. Karma says we get to relive our past mistakes....the AA folk now get to live what they've done and what they're justifying.

 

[Veritas]

What the AA folks CHOOSE to disregard is the fact that the last TWA bk was orchastrated by AA to make the acquisition easier in the eyes of the Gov. Abrogate contracts AND SCOPE...

And to get rid of Carl Icahn onerous Karabu ticketing agreement.

St. Louis Magazine - TWA Death Of A Legend​

 

[Maark767]

Nancy:

I think Mark is like so many of the AA people....and, in fairness, like so many of all us. Galley gossip and hearsay has replaced the reality of facts, and to be fair, that's understandable. APFA is not a Union known for revealing the truth about anything, and it worked to their advantage to support unethical behavior because that's what the membership wanted to believe. They will fight to the death to support the idea that TWA was in bankruptcy a third time, denying court papers and records that prove that the bankruptcy was demanded by AA in order to rid us of Karabu (Ican's ticket scam).

Would we have survived? Would we have downsized and made it past 9/11? Who knows at this point, but to use that as an excuse for anti-Union unethical behavior is unfortunate at best, and sadly lacking in principles at the very least.

I'm convinced that deep down in all of us is that little germ of knowledge about right and wrong. How much easier is it to deny that, when you behave in a manner that you truly know is wrong? What was done to the TWA people was wrong. If it wasn't due to that, why were the Reno flight attendants stapled also? Was their Co. in "bankruptcy"? Were they a "failing carrier". No...they were stapled because the AA people could, and did. No other reason.It could be urban legend but all of us on 'this side" have heard the story about the AA pilot, who when asked why APA did what they did to our pilots, replied "because we could". "Because we could" is not an excuse...the AA people know it, deep down, and we know they know it.

The universe is a funny thing....many times (perhaps not often enough, if you look at someone like Hitler or Idi Amin) it rights itself and shakes down back to basics to level the playing field. That's what has happened here. Karma says we get to relive our past mistakes....the AA folk now get to live what they've done and what they're justifying.

Sorry.... not going down this road again......We see it one way and you guys see it another. IAM signed your seniority away at the courthouse or AA was not going forward with the deal...... go sue the IAM. I'm done!

 

[FWAAA]

Amazing that US employees spouting their wet dream of taking over AA have now managed to reopen the AA-TWA discussion, thanks to some former TWA employees who relish any opportunity to ramble about the injustices.

Yes, it was sad when TWA died. But that was more than 10 years ago. Time to move forward.

US has just 7,000 FAs while AA has what, about 16,000? To assume that APFA would not win that election is delusional, at best.

 

[swamt]

What BK judge ( in his/her RIGHT MIND) would let (even) a BK/AA anywhere Near an abortion like LCC, considering that they're still not working off of a single (pilots) seniority list ?

H O W . . . . long has it been since they STILL can't get-it-together ?

The merger took place back in 2005. Here we are rolling into 2012. Once we hit next year they will be at 7 years and still nothing. AT and SWA guys are you listening??? This integration could very well take up to 10 years just like they were told at the table by AMFA attorneys if they wanted to drag this out. I would be willing to bet that AA and US will take even longer.

 

[TWskyliner]

Mark, Rob Clayson (sp) one of the apfa's high priced lawyers told a packed house at the St.Louis road show that what the apfa had done to the TWA flight attendants was wrong, (i was there.) A law was passed because what the apfa did to the TWA flight attendants was wrong. You may have kept YOUR JOB but you lost something else. You can't escape Karma.

 

[gasman]

Mark, Rob Clayson (sp) one of the apfa's high priced lawyers told a packed house at the St.Louis road show that what the apfa had done to the TWA flight attendants was wrong, (i was there.) A law was passed because what the apfa did to the TWA flight attendants was wrong. You may have kept YOUR JOB but you lost something else. You can't escape Karma.

APFA's Attorney that stated stapling was wrong, as a Union Attorney, and to staple any union member is wrong! His name is Rob Clayman, and he also stated that this action will come back to harm this group, meaning APFAs members.

To all the Still Ungrateful AA employees, Still ungrateful after the hard work of the former TWA f/as to protect seniority including AAs, you still don't get it, but soon the harm will come back!