AAA ALPA Thread 10/12 to 10/18

[Richard]

Pick up the East ALPA discussion here, and please remember don't make it personal....

 

[exB717Flyer]

ExB17Flyer: "Not all principles are worth defending." Huh? Care to list those of yours that you would willingly surrender?

I have no need to surrender any of my principles because none of my principles try to justify circumventing policies in order to screw others.

I like a good night's sleep now and then.

Just make sure the sleeping pills you have to take are worn off before reporting for duty.

 

[EastUS]

I have no need to surrender any of my principles because none of my principles try to justify circumventing policies in order to screw others.Just make sure the sleeping pills you have to take are worn off before reporting for duty.

Ah..My mistake then. I'd thought that we were speaking of Principles..not some BS Alpo "Policies"/"Guidelines?"/whatever suits their personal position at the moment. I'm still a bit confused as to what "principles aren't worth defending". Perhaps you could actually try to explain your statement there.

I appreciate the sleeping pills suggestion, but, as impossible as it may seem to you; my concience is clean on my position. I'm not trying to tell anyone who's got at least twice, to three, or four plus times my flying experience and work years that he/she should give me their seat and seniority.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I'm still a bit confused as to what "principles aren't worth defending".

I see that. Perhaps you should go to a local prison and see how many there feel they deserve to be incarcerated and how many think they don't.

I appreciate the sleeping pills suggestion,

It wasn't a suggestion, it was an assumption.

I'm not trying to tell anyone who's got at least twice, to three, or four plus times my flying experience and work years that he/she should give me their seat and seniority.

Do you think George Nicolau has any trouble sleeping? There's a reason he was empowered to make that determination and not you.

 

[Phoenix]

Do you think George Nicolau has any trouble sleeping? There's a reason he was empowered to make that determination and not you.

Ha! Is there anyone over 85 that doesn't suffer from insomnia?

 

[nostradamus]

Do you think George Nicolau has any trouble sleeping?

No, it appears like he took quite a few naps during arbitration.

 

[Cactus737]

No, it appears like he took quite a few naps during arbitration.

I love how you guys blame everybody else for this situation. The whole world is out to screw you, right?

I did some asking around and found out that Nicolau is still being used in arbitrations at most other ALPA properties, and quite often I might add. There's a reason for that. It's because most other people see this situation for what it is - you guys tried to screw us with a DOH/LOS integration method that heavily favors you, and you failed at it. We all saw this several years ago when you guys started touting your DOH baloney to the United guys, requesting that they send you B747 manuals.

 

[Phoenix]

I love how you guys blame everybody else for this situation...

Trying to pretend that there is not a "situation", because only one side is supposedly blaming the whole world, is simple or wilful ignorance.

The fact is that there is a "situation" that has to be resolved. John Prater himself has told all of us as much when he called for the AAA MEC to work within the association to resolve the seniority issues.


"I request that the MEC adopt a resolution expressing full and unreserved support for the continuation of ALPA representation along with continued efforts to resolve all collective bargaining and seniority issues within the Association." John Prater, October 1, 2007


By the way, such a resolution is a waste of time. By virtue of the fact that the MEC are ALPA representatives they have already affirmed all the things that Prater wishes them to affirm.

 

[exB717Flyer]

No, it appears like he took quite a few naps during arbitration.

That's right, tough guy, Nicolau is so old, senile, vindictive, corrupt, and incompetent that the pilot neutral chosen by your side had this to say: "Finally I would like to a reaffirm my opinion that the Chairman Nicolau demonstrated exceptional judgment and wisdom working through many very difficult and challenging issues including the disparate aircraft types, routes, compensation systems, and pilot staffing formulas to mention just a few. It has been a privilege to work together with Chairman Nicolau and Captain Gillen on this Opinion and Award."

It's a conspiracy, I tell you! Management, ALPA, the American Arbitration Association, pilot neutrals, and the courts all rule against you or to your disliking. USAPA will right all the wrongs. And fluoridation is a Communist plot to poison our children. Hence, I drink only rain water and grain alcohol to protect my precious bodily fluids.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

What about his dissenting opinion also in the same letter? So apparently all was not well. I wonder if he knew they were using a flawed list? And Nic chose to ignore it?

 

[Cactus737]

What about his dissenting opinion also in the same letter? So apparently all was not well. I wonder if he knew they were using a flawed list? And Nic chose to ignore it?

The CAL pilot only disagreed with *one* aspect of the award:

"At a minimum, it is my opinion that the US Airways pilots, who had already received notice of their opportunity to return to work from furlough, should have received some consideration for the substantial time they have already invested in their airline."

That means that his only beef has to do with the treatment of the senior most furloughees. He doesn't specifically disagree with their placement on the list, and in fact he mentions elsewhere in his dissent that those pilots should be all be furloughed ahead of Odell. He doesn't disagree with the ratios either, and he certainly doesn't agree with the division of attrition (your windfall argument).

BTW - it's incorrect of you to state that his dissent was "the placement of the MDA pilots" because he, in fact, never mentions MDA in his dissent. He obviously doesn't agree that MDA was mainline. It's hard to buy that argument when you *had* to be furloughed from mainline to bid MDA, and you didn't accrue mainline longevity while at MDA. It's pretty obvious that the MDA pilots didn't get the consideration they should have from the AAA MEC, as evidenced by their suit against ALPA, but that only solidifies the argument that MDA was NOT mainline.

Also, it's pretty clear to me that although he may have felt that the senior most furloughees should have had more consideration, most of what he wrote could have been done with the primary purpose of political appeasement. He was, after all, hired by the AAA MEC to serve as their pilot neutral.

 

[Phoenix]

Prater and pals have chosen how to make their bed.

 

[nostradamus]

I love how you guys blame everybody else for this situation. The whole world is out to screw you, right?

I did some asking around and found out that Nicolau is still being used in arbitrations at most other ALPA properties, and quite often I might add.

Please provide proof of his services still being used presently. He may be in the Alpa properties little black book, but I guarantee in the future they will not call him for a date.

 

[Cactus737]

Please provide proof of his services still being used presently. He may be in the Alpa properties little black book, but I guarantee in the future they will not call him for a date.

Fair enough - I'll see what I can find out and will list my sources. In the mean time, why don't you provide proof of how you can "guarantee" that he will not be used in the future?

 

[exB717Flyer]

What about his dissenting opinion also in the same letter?

What about it? Cactus737 reposted it. Any other questions?

So apparently all was not well.

Reread the quote I posted. It speaks for itself.

I wonder if he knew they were using a flawed list? And Nic chose to ignore it?

Whether or not it was flawed is one of the things Nicolau was tasked to decide. He decided.