Aa's Big Announcement On Feb, 2005

[firstamendment]

Ah, the buy onboard. I guess UAL will be the next to fall. Oh well, sell alot and you win cool gift certificates. I've won about $300 worth of gift certificates at U. Not much, but better then my Chritmas bonus....NOT!

 

[jcavinato]

It's tough to see the strategic advantage for AA in this one. With the legacy problems at U it would amost be easier for AA to wait for U's demise and pick up gates and aircraft cheaper on its own and wiithout the labor issues. Besides, mergers are costly from a management time and attention standpoint. True, TWA disappeared almost without notice to the traveling public (except in St. Louis), but U would be a tougher one.

International routes out of PHL just one hundred miles from those at JFK? Yeah, some of them are open skies markets, and these can be shifted to JFK. But, if these markets were good, why not just add flights from JFK right now? American Eagle can start feeder service, if JFK slots allow it.

So, why do the merger?

 

[L1011Ret]

I do not believe there will be a merger. It does not make sense. On the other hand, it would be my bet that AA would like some 7E7s and that would be my bet to replace A300s. Just a hunch.

 

[MCI transplant]

I do not believe there will be a merger. It does not make sense. On the other hand, it would be my bet that AA would like some 7E7s and that would be my bet to replace A300s. Just a hunch.

[post="235162"][/post]​

<_< This would make sence, but I've heard Arpy & Co. have been socking money away to be able to purchase assists of either U, or UAL, if, and when, they should become avalable. I wouldn't think they would have the resources to do both. But, then again, I've been wrong before!

 

[Winglet]

Arpey's got to do something, otherwise, he's headed down the same road as U and UAL, and a BK in fall '05. He needs to start growing the airline and getting some critical mass synergy back. Right now AMR is just treading water, and not doing such a hot job at that.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< This would make sence, but I've heard Arpy & Co. have been socking money away to be able to purchase assists of either U, or UAL, if, and when, they should become avalable. I wouldn't think they would have the resources to do both. But, then again, I've been wrong before!

[post="235187"][/post]​

The same financial sources that theyt claim have been demanding paycuts from us will cough up the funds.

People forget that the airlines are considered an "intermediate good". In other words people buy airline tickets as "a means to achieve some other purpose".

So price is not the sole determining factor, especially when we are talking the difference os between 10 to $50. People dont fly just to fly, they fly to do business, go on vacation, to see people or whatever. If United or USAIR should fail the places that they serve would be desperate to get air service back. When airlines stop flying the banks stand to looose more money if someone does not pick up the service than they would by dumping money into a money losing airline.

Lets say you are a bank. You have loans (investments) all over the place. You may even own a fleet of Aircraft that you lease out to the airlines. You own the bonds that were used to build the local airport-bonds which are paid back through landing fees, rents, ticket taxes, ect provided by the airlines. You own Hotels, which are filled by people that the airline flies in, you own a share of the oil company that the airline buys their fuel from. You have loans to the various resturants and attractions that the people who the airlines fly in visit and dump their money into. So you have all these investments which are all tied to the movement of people. People that without the airlines would probably not have the time or the inkling to otherwise venture so far away from home.

Whith investments all over the place if any one of them starts to lose money the bank would still be OK, however if the airline stops flying then all hell breaks loose. The airplanes sit on the ground depreciating and still costing money. The Hotels sit empty, while expenses still exist. The Airport sits empty, while expenses still exist. The attractions sit empty, while expenses still exist. The Resturants sit empty while expenses still exist. Even our own unions, simply another business, can be plugged into this in that as long as we are showing up to work then they still get their dues, no matter how little we get, to fund their raises and generous pensions and other perks.


So if UAL or USAir go under all of a sudden these same financial institutions that were playing along with the airlines in screwing us will find it in their heatrs to dump a whole lot of money into the airlines to keep the people moving and spending. The banks are not going to have anybody staying home, and not spending money, because an airline was not making money.

Thats why we as workers need to do what the banks, the airlines, the politicians and the union leaders fear the most. WE NEED TO SHUT THE WHOLE THING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once we do that and the millions of people that board flights to go places and spend their money stay home instead the economic burden that was placed squarely and solely on the shoulders of airline workers will now be spread out far and wide across the economy. Instead of scheming how to screw us they will be desperate to get the planes flying again. That is our leverage and we need to use it. As long as we show up and get the planes out, the banks, the press, the politicians and the companies will all sit back and do nothing to help us.

 

[local 12 proud]

The same financial sources that theyt claim have been demanding paycuts from us will cough up the funds.

People forget that the airlines are considered an "intermediate good". In other words people buy airline tickets as "a means to achieve some other purpose".

So price is not the sole determining factor, especially when we are talking the difference os between 10 to $50. People dont fly just to fly, they fly to do business, go on vacation, to see people or whatever. If United or USAIR should fail the places that they serve would be desperate to get air service back. When airlines stop flying the banks stand to looose more money if someone does not pick up the service than they would by dumping money into a money losing airline.

Lets say you are a bank. You have loans (investments) all over the place. You may even own a fleet of Aircraft that you lease out to the airlines. You own the bonds that were used to build the local airport-bonds which are paid back through landing fees, rents, ticket taxes, ect provided by the airlines. You own Hotels, which are filled by people that the airline flies in, you own a share of the oil company that the airline buys their fuel from. You have loans to the various resturants and attractions that the people who the airlines fly in visit and dump their money into. So you have all these investments which are all tied to the movement of people. People that without the airlines would probably not have the time or the inkling to otherwise venture so far away from home.

Whith investments all over the place if any one of them starts to lose money the bank would still be OK, however if the airline stops flying then all hell breaks loose. The airplanes sit on the ground depreciating and still costing money. The Hotels sit empty, while expenses still exist. The Airport sits empty, while expenses still exist. The attractions sit empty, while expenses still exist. The Resturants sit empty while expenses still exist. Even our own unions, simply another business, can be plugged into this in that as long as we are showing up to work then they still get their dues, no matter how little we get, to fund their raises and generous pensions and other perks.
So if UAL or USAir go under all of a sudden these same financial institutions that were playing along with the airlines in screwing us will find it in their heatrs to dump a whole lot of money into the airlines to keep the people moving and spending. The banks are not going to have anybody staying home, and not spending money, because an airline was not making money.

Thats why we as workers need to do what the banks, the airlines, the politicians and the union leaders fear the most. WE NEED TO SHUT THE WHOLE THING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once we do that and the millions of people that board flights to go places and spend their money stay home instead the economic burden that was placed squarely and solely on the shoulders of airline workers will now be spread out far and wide across the economy. Instead of scheming how to screw us they will be desperate to get the planes flying again. That is our leverage and we need to use it. As long as we show up and get the planes out, the banks, the press, the politicians and the companies will all sit back and do nothing to help us.

[post="235354"][/post]​

sadly this will never happen and I will tell you why, I spoke with fellow employee about this exact scenario of taking a stand and his reply and i quote: " I have a brand new truck payment, just had a pool built last year at my two year old house and Im in DEBT up to my neck" We as Americans have backed ourselves against a wall to the point that a strike would bankrupt a large majority and very few are willing to fight. This individual is just happy to have a job even though he can hardly pay his bills and would take another paycut just so he can "KEEP UP WITH THE JONE'S" Its utterly pathetic :down:

 

[Kev3188]

.... WE NEED TO SHUT THE WHOLE THING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!

..... That is our leverage and we need to use it. As long as we show up and get the planes out, the banks, the press, the politicians and the companies will all sit back and do nothing to help us.

[post="235354"][/post]​

Well said, Bob.

 

[Bob Owens]

sadly this will never happen and I will tell you why, I spoke with fellow employee about this exact scenario of taking a stand and his reply and i quote: " I have a brand new truck payment, just had a pool built last year at my two year old house and Im in DEBT up to my neck" We as Americans have backed ourselves against a wall to the point that a strike would bankrupt a large majority and very few are willing to fight. This individual is just happy to have a job even though he can hardly pay his bills and would take another paycut just so he can "KEEP UP WITH THE JONE'S" Its utterly pathetic :down:

[post="235365"][/post]​

Well thats where education starts.

Show him the graph of mechanics pay vs inflation to let him know that if we do not take a stand things are going to get worse, not better. The bank does not want his house or his pool or his truck, they want his money, and his ability to give it will continue to diminish. Over the long run if we do not change our dircetion he will loose it all anyway.

If that doesnt work, dont worry, a few mechanics in Tulsa are not going to keep the industry flying.

 

[desertfox]

Well said, Bob.

[post="235367"][/post]​

Riiiigght......we can't save the village, so lets burn it down. Smart...very smart.
Don't put your effort into being creative, pooling ideas and offering more cost effective ways of doing things. Just pound the rythmic drums to get zombie like chants of shut it down going.
Yeah, that will help everyone.... :blink:

 

[MCI transplant]

Riiiigght......we can't save the village, so lets burn it down. Smart...very smart.
Don't put your effort into being creative, pooling ideas and offering more cost effective ways of doing things. Just pound the rythmic drums to get zombie like chants of shut it down going.
Yeah, that will help everyone.... :blink:

[post="235447"][/post]​

<_< Let's face it. De-regulation is a failure! As much as the pro-market people may towt it! The whole industry is in trouble! So what would you suggest to put a stop to this madness???? :down:

 

[Winglet]

<_< Let's face it. De-regulation is a failure! As much as the pro-market people may towt it! The whole industry is in trouble! So what would you suggest to put a stop to this madness???? :down:

[post="235454"][/post]​

MCI - I don't think there is a way to stop the madness. We as a society refuse to acknowledge anything until there's a meltdown and interference with us personally. There is no air transportation policy with the government other than continuing to prop up terminally ill companies in hopes of driving down wages and ticket fares. Unfortunately the ultimate result will be no service to smaller markets, decreased service to medium cities, and probably 100,000 more unemployed airline workers with the ultimate failures of UAL and US Airways. Then the screaming will start with the American public to force companies to serve smaller markets.

The airline system is a very peculiar and disfunctional combination of:

1. Moronically simplistic thinking on the part of the American public and lawmakers
2. Very unstable outside forces such as the price of oil
3. Chaotic foreign policy and terrorism
4. A "Poltemkin" economy that has outward signs of being ok, but is, in reality rotting from within due to unbelievable trade deficits.
5. Cherry-picking LCCs creating unrealistic expectations that super-low fares are possible everywhere
6. Customers thinking airline workers are only service workers and deserve fast-food wages
7. The increasingly courseness and vulgarity of American society in which service workers are expected to put up with any abuse or insult
8. The expectation that American executives are some sort of cultural elite and not subject to scruntiny or responsiblity.

 

[local 12 proud]

Well thats where education starts.

Show him the graph of mechanics pay vs inflation to let him know that if we do not take a stand things are going to get worse, not better. The bank does not want his house or his pool or his truck, they want his money, and his ability to give it will continue to diminish. Over the long run if we do not change our dircetion he will loose it all anyway.

If that doesnt work, dont worry, a few mechanics in Tulsa are not going to keep the industry flying.

[post="235374"][/post]​

Bob I have not given up on Tulsa because i have personally wittnessed many former TWU diehards abandon the Idea of ever having fair representation from this joke of a Union, but at the same time when i stroll thru this Mega parking lot here in Tulsa and see Thousands of brand New Vehicles year after year even after the Massive paycuts I have to scratch my head. Many people will simply roll over rather than risk losing it all, I agree with what you say and have been a eager participant with the AMFA drive but in reality I also fear many are just not gonna take a stand!

 

[okoge1027]

I think that AA will ask us for more consessions. I think that's the big announcement. You know what that means....more furlough. Last time AA asked for consession, they didn't care how we came up with it. Our union will probably go for furloughing that many f/a's to meet the consession, because THB supported that idea, because I don't think anyone is going to give up their pay this time. They'd rather furlough junior f/a's than giving up their pay. I know it's pessamistic, but I think that's what's gonna happen next.

 

[okoge1027]

Ah, the buy onboard. I guess UAL will be the next to fall. Oh well, sell alot and you win cool gift certificates. I've won about $300 worth of gift certificates at U. Not much, but better then my Chritmas bonus....NOT!

[post="234689"][/post]​

I guess those Hawaii trips out of LAX will go junior!!!!! Those seniors don't wanna be bothered with that on-board stuff! It's already bad enough with serving food.