Acceptance rate of latest 266?

[737823]

Jumpseat on DAL and the FA's will tell you the DAl can't keep the new hires. They are for the most part going to New York( as where most airlines send you) at $17,500 or a little more. One furloughed AA F/A, went to AE, then applied and was hired at DAL as a speaker, decided no, low pay and & there culture. Does hope to be back at AA in the future.

Yet some how DL FAs (PM-DL) seem more happy, attentive, and engaged with their passengers. The PM-NW FAs are the absolute worst and its difficult to avoid them as they are flying former DL aircraft now, and DL crews fly former NW aircraft too.

By the way, awful service on flt 222 Friday by BOS-based crew. Purser was on mobile phone during boarding in galley, no menus distributed, and pre-arrival service was not served until 30 min before landing. Excellent BOS-based crew on flt 25 BOS-LAX Wednesday. FAs very courteous, professional, and even checked on passengers to make sure everyone was comfortable periodically during the flight. I don't know what what's going on lately.

Josh

 

[boston]

Yet some how DL FAs (PM-DL) seem more happy, attentive, and engaged with their passengers. The PM-NW FAs are the absolute worst and its difficult to avoid them as they are flying former DL aircraft now, and DL crews fly former NW aircraft too.

By the way, awful service on flt 222 Friday by BOS-based crew. Purser was on mobile phone during boarding in galley, no menus distributed, and pre-arrival service was not served until 30 min before landing. Excellent BOS-based crew on flt 25 BOS-LAX Wednesday. FAs very courteous, professional, and even checked on passengers to make sure everyone was comfortable periodically during the flight. I don't know what what's going on lately.

Josh

I'm not sure what the phone issue has to do with what we were discussing. I have to tell you, AA has been flying in to LHR for a few years give or take 20, and in the crew room NWA are very friendly...good morning ect. DAL new comers very rarely say boo to you... but that has nothing to do with this thread.

Glad flt 25 was good to you.

 

[FWAAA]

I'll echo what boston wrote.

Starting wages are near or below the poverty line and most new hires are assigned to bases in high cost of living cities.

No argument from me; starting wages for flight attendants are very low at every airline. The only reason I brought up DL and AA average FA wages was to dispel any mistaken notion that DL's 85k applications was because DL pays more than AA. The average AA FA earns about 30% more than the average DL FA. I assume that job seekers are rational and would not apply in huge numbers at Delta yet avoid AA - which was exactly Bob Owen's assertion - that AA could not attract any large number of FA applicants.

 

[eolesen]

Starting wages are near or below the poverty line and most new hires are assigned to bases in high cost of living cities.

Shocking, I tell you. Simply shocking.

But that's the way it was when I worked for PE in the mid 80's, and how it was in the late 80's when I got hired with AA. Yet everyone seemed to make it work at the time, either by getting a crash pad or having lots & lots of roommates...

 

[Bob Owens]

Shocking, I tell you. Simply shocking.

But that's the way it was when I worked for PE in the mid 80's, and how it was in the late 80's when I got hired with AA. Yet everyone seemed to make it work at the time, either by getting a crash pad or having lots & lots of roommates...

Wrong, adjusted for inflation workers today are making much less. For mechanics its around 40% less, probably the same for FAs.

 

[Bob Owens]

bob spin it how ever you like . there people that want and can do the job


you think people working at mcdonalds or some other low paying job wouldn't jump at the job.


look at ord they got rid of aa doing the fueling for eagle . the new company ASIG pays there fuelers 8.75 hour. your right people will n't work for nothing.

I think that the number of people who are able to live a lifestyle where you end up sleeping in other cities several times a month is limited. Most mothers would work McDonalds before they work as an FA because this way they can be home every night for their kids. They can put in fewer hours and be paid for all the hours they work, in most cases they can walk to work and have a short commute, so they dont need a car, even if you live at the end of the Runway you are talking at least an hour of commuting if you work at JFK.

Fuelers getting $8.75 go home every night. Most are probably self employed and put in minimal hours for the benifits.

 

[jimntx]

Well, of course you would know better than those of us who actually do the job, and constantly have people out and about asking us when/if we are hiring. I had a friend who is a registered nurse and probably makes $60-70k/yr ask me last night if there were any f/a openings at AA. But, like I said, we are all wrong and you are right. Now, as a present to us in return for that concession, could you please let just one thread about f/a issues not end being a discussion of mechanics?

 

[Bob Owens]

What does a strike have to do with the discussion?

Think whatever you want about the quality of the unemployed out there, Bob. The fact is that throughout the past 20 years, the low-paying regionals (even Eagle) have had no real difficulty finding sufficient numbers of 19-22 year olds willing to be flight attendants. In the years prior to 2001, AA had no real difficulty attracting sufficient numbers of FAs. Now, it's been 10 years since AA has hired a mainline FA; in fact, DL, UA, CO, NW and US hired very few new FAs over the past 10 years. DL pays less than AA (DL's hourly rates are less than at AA, leading to much of the difference in average FA wages) yet DL got more than 85k applications a few months ago. And yet you insist on arguing that AA couldn't attract 100k or more applications?

Even WN says it gets about 100k applications each year for all positions and hires an average of about 3,000 new employees each year.

The bolded portion of your post demonstrates a profound logical flaw in your reasoning. Your argument appears to be "DL only got about one application per 150 unemployed people nationwide who want to be DL FAs, and that proves something about the applicants and those who did not apply." All it proves, Bob, is that DL got about 148 applications per opening. Nothing more, nothing less.

Once again your arrogance gets the best of you. If it doesnt say what you want it to say it says nothing.

As you and many others have pointed out the barriers to entry for FAs are low, there arent schools out there that train people to become FAs, so the fact that they havent hired in 10 years means nothing, if anything it means that fewer people would be looking there for a job because it becomes assumed there isnt a career path there anymore. You seem to feel that since they havent hired in 10 years that there is a backlog of potential AA Flight attendants waiting for the opportunity to become an AA FA. Well Delta answered that, possibly 85000 in a nation of over 200 million may have an interest in working as a flight attendant. My guess is that is a much lower number than ever before and that was with Delta advertizing the openings and over 15 million unemployed. Did Delta ever have to advertize before? That says a lot in itself.


You say that they had 85,000 applications for 575 jobs, but the 'pool" of available workers, people who dont have a job is 15 million. Out of those 85000 that they claim they got, (we have no way of really knowing) how many even have enough to overcome the low barriers to entry? Do you think if they had 2000 jobs available the number would have been higher? Or if they only had 10 the number would have been lower? I say 85000 is the number they would have recieved regardless of how many openings they had and I think that number is lower than what they expected and I say thats the pool that all the airlines would feed from, and a portion of that 85,000 would be FAs who are working at Eagle or other RJs so the potential supply from an industry standpoint would be even smaller.

Delta advertized their job openings and yet out of a pool of 15million people without jobs only 85000 put in for it. Why would you think that AA would get more than that? If anything a percentage of that 85000 would become discouraged and not bother filling out another application and the majority of those who filled out the application for AA would be the same people who filled out the application for Delta. Most people who did want to become an FA would have no idea and assume the pay levels are the same at AA and really would not say "I'd apply for AA but not Delta" when they arent already working. You cited that SWA gets 100k applications for all positions, well my guess is the majority of those applications are from workers at other carriers and none of them were in response to ads. The fact that Delta felt they needed to advertize says a lot, its something they didnt have to do in the past and the yield of acceptable candidates would be much lower than through traditional practices .

The fact is that releasing the numbers for how many applications vs the number of job openings is a propaganda tactic that employers use to make workers feel they can be easily replaced and FWAA you know that. It really doesnt mean anything because anyone, can fill out an application, even people who are just curious or have to show Unemployment that they have filled out an application so they can continue to get benifits.When you have 15 million unemployed 85000 isnt a lot of applications, its less than one half of one percent. It would be interesting to see if Delta was willing to release where the applications came from and see what the rules are in that state for Unemployment compensation.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well, of course you would know better than those of us who actually do the job, and constantly have people out and about asking us when/if we are hiring. I had a friend who is a registered nurse and probably makes $60-70k/yr ask me last night if there were any f/a openings at AA. But, like I said, we are all wrong and you are right. Now, as a present to us in return for that concession, could you please let just one thread about f/a issues not end being a discussion of mechanics?

Did you tell your friend what the job pays?

The biggest challenge that FAs have as far as getting a decent contract is that there are too many bootlickers such as yourself.

 

[jimntx]

Did you tell your friend what the job pays?

Yes, and he was still interested. He has been in nursing for a number of years and is getting burned out. Beside that, we have several nurses that are f/as who supplement their income by continuing to do nursing on the side. One of my new-hire class mates does it. The hospital where she works is so desperate for nursing staff that once bids are awarded, she takes her AA schedule to the hospital and they schedule her to work whenever she can (and wants to) work for them. Now, there is a real personnel shortage.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes, and he was still interested. He has been in nursing for a number of years and is getting burned out. Beside that, we have several nurses that are f/as who supplement their income by continuing to do nursing on the side. One of my new-hire class mates does it. The hospital where she works is so desperate for nursing staff that once bids are awarded, she takes her AA schedule to the hospital and they schedule her to work whenever she can (and wants to) work for them. Now, there is a real personnel shortage.

My wife is a nurse so I know the deal. she works her schedule around mine and can pretty much pick up hours whenever she wants.

Lets see how long she lasts, especially if AA gets the concessions they want.

 

[boston]

Did you tell your friend what the job pays?

The biggest challenge that FAs have as far as getting a decent contract is that there are too many bootlickers such as yourself.

Well, here's the latest on us-APFA trying to get a decent contract. Maybe the company has no intention on changing the contract so they have no need for productivity and us paying more for health care, not to mention AA is sure paying a lot money for a negotiating team/firm to just say "NO" it's their favorite and only word.
"
As APFA President Laura Glading stated in her March 25 Hotline, the National Mediation Board (NMB) has given us every indication there would not be a release anytime soon. And taking this circumstance into consideration, the APFA would meet with the NMB to discuss whether a deal could be reached outside of a cooling-off period. Although there were no formal mediated sessions, the APFA Negotiating Team met this week with the NMB’s Director of Mediated Services and discussed options to reach a deal, while being cognizant of the economic climate of both the industry and the country. An option we presented to the company was a short-term, cash-only deal. We offered an 18-month extension of the current contract with only two items; a 3% wage increase effective January 1, 2010 (retro) and a 3% increase the date of signing, for a 6% total wage increase. All other items would be set aside, or ‘tabled’, until negotiations picked up again at the end of the 18 months.

Laura Glading said, “This was an offer that was extremely reasonable and fair. A solution that would give the Flight Attendants some much needed, immediate financial relief, and American labor relief. All other items would be postponed in anticipation of American and the industry making an upturn over the next year and a half. It was good for Flight Attendants and good for American.”

Glading continued, “The company said ‘no’. No to a minimal realistic wage increase for a workgroup in which many are losing their homes, having difficulty paying their bills, and some are on the verge of filing, or have already filed, bankruptcy. They say they recognize Flight Attendants as the face of American, having the most visible and personal contact with customers, yet they will not offer one penny without asking for more concessions. Concessions on top of the more than $3 billion in sacrifices we’ve already made over the last 8 years.”

These same executives crying that the company is not making a profit and cannot afford a pay increase for the Flight Attendants will shamelessly stuff their pockets with millions in bonuses in just a few short days.

This insatiable greed will be the focus of our picketing and leafleting events on April 20, the day these gluttons once again collect their most undeserved rewards. Every Flight Attendant that is not flying during the hours of 11:00-14:00 local base time needs to be involved in these events. Please contact your local Chairperson to learn how you can participate.

Laura Glading also noted, “With the Company rejecting the offer of an 18-month contract extension with a 6% wage increase, the bargaining position of both APFA and the company remain as they were as of our last negotiating session on January 6, 2011. The APFA Negotiating Team has worked tirelessly for three years. And so have the Flight Attendants. We will continue to explore all options and will not stop until the Flight Attendants have a contract that recognizes their hard work and sacrifices, and are rewarded for their professionalism and for the value they bring to this company.”

It appears Arpey is looking a lot like the anti-union politicians in Wisconsin, Ohio and other states lashing out at working people and their families. A new video has been posted on our YouTube channel highlighting the similarities between Arpey and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker. Take a moment to view and share the video with your e-groups and on your Facebook and Twitter pages. It is time to turn up the heat and for the exposure of this unconscionable greed to go viral!"


APFA Communications
negotiate08@apfa.org

 

[Veritas]

Yet some how DL FAs (PM-DL) seem more happy, attentive, and engaged with their passengers. The PM-NW FAs are the absolute worst and its difficult to avoid them as they are flying former DL aircraft now, and DL crews fly former NW aircraft too.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? 🙄

 

[Veritas]

Well, here's the latest on us-APFA trying to get a decent contract. Maybe the company has no intention on changing the contract so they have no need for productivity and us paying more for health care, not to mention AA is sure paying a lot money for a negotiating team/firm to just say "NO" it's their favorite and only word.
"
As APFA President Laura Glading stated in her March 25 Hotline, the National Mediation Board (NMB) has given us every indication there would not be a release anytime soon. And taking this circumstance into consideration, the APFA would meet with the NMB to discuss whether a deal could be reached outside of a cooling-off period. Although there were no formal mediated sessions, the APFA Negotiating Team met this week with the NMB’s Director of Mediated Services and discussed options to reach a deal, while being cognizant of the economic climate of both the industry and the country. An option we presented to the company was a short-term, cash-only deal. We offered an 18-month extension of the current contract with only two items; a 3% wage increase effective January 1, 2010 (retro) and a 3% increase the date of signing, for a 6% total wage increase. All other items would be set aside, or ‘tabled’, until negotiations picked up again at the end of the 18 months.

Laura Glading said, “This was an offer that was extremely reasonable and fair. A solution that would give the Flight Attendants some much needed, immediate financial relief, and American labor relief. All other items would be postponed in anticipation of American and the industry making an upturn over the next year and a half. It was good for Flight Attendants and good for American.”

Glading continued, “The company said ‘no’. No to a minimal realistic wage increase for a workgroup in which many are losing their homes, having difficulty paying their bills, and some are on the verge of filing, or have already filed, bankruptcy. They say they recognize Flight Attendants as the face of American, having the most visible and personal contact with customers, yet they will not offer one penny without asking for more concessions. Concessions on top of the more than $3 billion in sacrifices we’ve already made over the last 8 years.”

These same executives crying that the company is not making a profit and cannot afford a pay increase for the Flight Attendants will shamelessly stuff their pockets with millions in bonuses in just a few short days.

This insatiable greed will be the focus of our picketing and leafleting events on April 20, the day these gluttons once again collect their most undeserved rewards. Every Flight Attendant that is not flying during the hours of 11:00-14:00 local base time needs to be involved in these events. Please contact your local Chairperson to learn how you can participate.

Laura Glading also noted, “With the Company rejecting the offer of an 18-month contract extension with a 6% wage increase, the bargaining position of both APFA and the company remain as they were as of our last negotiating session on January 6, 2011. The APFA Negotiating Team has worked tirelessly for three years. And so have the Flight Attendants. We will continue to explore all options and will not stop until the Flight Attendants have a contract that recognizes their hard work and sacrifices, and are rewarded for their professionalism and for the value they bring to this company.”

It appears Arpey is looking a lot like the anti-union politicians in Wisconsin, Ohio and other states lashing out at working people and their families. A new video has been posted on our YouTube channel highlighting the similarities between Arpey and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker. Take a moment to view and share the video with your e-groups and on your Facebook and Twitter pages. It is time to turn up the heat and for the exposure of this unconscionable greed to go viral!"


APFA Communications
negotiate08@apfa.org

Read on the New APFA Yahoo! group:

To: APFA Officers, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Ad Hocs, Negotiators
From: XXXXXXXXXXX, Negotiator

All –

Our interests and values have been truly tested by President Laura Glading and her administration; she has time and time again gone against APFA Policy and Constitution.

I respectfully ask to be placed on the agenda for the next EC / Board of Directors meeting to address the topic of negotiations, and to seek an immediate internal remedy. I respectfully request that that meeting be scheduled for this week. It is in the best interests of APFA if that we meet as expeditiously as possible.

This is but a thumbnail sketch of a few of the events that cause me grave concern: Most concerning, is a series of events beginning Tuesday, 5 April 2011, when the "6% solution" was turned down and "true" negotiations began. It culminated with the narrow escape of a concessionary contract on Friday, 8 April 2011.

These events include, but are not limited to: an "almost TA" that did not contained any sort of retro pay, raised the schedule max, and provided a whole host of concessions that gave the company everything that they failed to take during restructuring in 2003.

This "offered TA", if accepted by the company, was done in the worst haste, with no cost outs numbers to show the millions of dollars of concessionary givebacks.

When this so called, "Mediator's Proposal," was forced upon the entire team by Laura, the lack of adequate details was appalling.

I would also like to address the "6% solution", its origin and the skullduggery surrounding it. The "6% solution" and its events will pale in comparison to the events of this past week, when the facts become known.

Truth is a perilous commodity, but so is ignorance. Ms. Glading would like all of us to remain in ignorance. President Glading's leadership has now almost resulted in disaster, twice, in a month. Most of us are completely unaware because of the selective way in which the APFA Board is informed of these events.

Ms. Glading fails to inform, she never attempts consensus, and she uses a "Strategic Committee" outside of policy and the APFA Constitution, to dictate her wishes and attempt to make them law.

If we are true to the membership, who elected us, then we must all ask questions and understand the events of the past weeks and months then, together, find a collective solution that we can work with in unity.

Barack Obama recently said, "… leadership is not simply a matter of going it alone … Real leadership creates the conditions and coalitions for others to step up as well; to work with allies and partners … "

In closing, let me reiterate, it is my sincere hope and desire to find an internal remedy to the problems created by President Glading's leadership and her policy of ignoring and disenfranchising negotiating team members. I fear that President Glading will continue to imperil these negotiations with her fears and her policies of withholding information from both her negotiating team and the APFA Board, while she seeks her own concessionary ends.

In unity,

xxxxxxxxx
Negotiator​

 

[Veritas]

Does any one know how many of the 266 flight attendants who received recall letters, the week of March 14 through 18, 2011, accepted?
Thanks.
Replies were to be mailed by the 25th and AA should have received them by March 29th.

Seen this on another bulletin board:

I just found this on the flight service website:

April 13, 2011

April 9 marked the tenth anniversary of AA’s purchase of TWA, so this is a good week to give you an update on the status of our recalls. It’s fair to say that the TWA flight attendants who came onboard a decade ago have been on something of a roller-coaster ride ever since, and they have demonstrated tremendous grace and resilience throughout.

The good news is that since November 2010, we have sent recall notices to more than 1,000 of the 1,336 flight attendants who were on furlough at that time. All of the 543 flight attendants who were furloughed in 2009 have been recalled, and 523 or 97% are now back at work. We recently recalled 468 flight attendants who have been on furlough since 2003, and 406 or 87% have accepted.

The first class of 60 started their four-week training on Monday April 11, and I had the pleasure of personally welcoming them back. New classes will start each Monday (except May 2) until the end of May, and these flight attendants will return to work on June 1 and July 2. Please help all of our recalled colleagues to feel valued and supported by giving them a warm and caring welcome back.

An additional 100 recall notices will be sent in July-August for an October return to work, leaving just 225 on furlough.​