AFA Thread 5/3-6/6

[sharktooth]

The protections that you so heartedly describe are negotiated items.

Actually, sir, the items described, for the most part are negotiated to the liberal (the employee) side of FARs, but given teeth by the FARs.

Your me-too adds leverage to any changes, leverage you would not have alone and unprotected by FARs. With large divisions between reserves and blockholders, Glass would love you to dump the me-too, allowing him to exploit any divisions within the FA group, I know I would if in his position.

The FA biggest problem, IMHO, is that the typical FA (much less the typical FA supervisor) really does not know the restrictions and allows the company to walk all over them. See if the company can comply with what they have, first, before talking.

 

[ganesha]

Getting back to Union business, who will negotiate the items we need to change? Will it be CAustin? Have the F/A's written to her and told her what they want? Will it be MFlores? Have the F/a's written to him? Or, are you going to just rant and rave on a chat board?

And, BTW, why on earth is a PHL Union official O.B., holding a management position as an "observation rider", while being an elected union official? And, why is the MEC bringing charges against OB for this, and why don't the members know? Why are the members the last to know everything until the UNION throws a paper T/A across the table at us? :down:

 

[safety stud]

CHANGE OF SUBJECT----SINCE WE ONLY HAVE THIS ONE AFA THREAD.......

I have a question. There are people coming back who were fired for the use of illegal drugs. Now that you get a second chance and rehab if you test positive, I guess that means those who were let go previously can come back. I just heard of a guy let go 4 years ago who was in recurrent saying he got his job back due to this new change.

So, here's the question...Do these people lose anything for being crack heads or whatever and getting fired. Do they come back at their original seniority?? Are they given the same amount of vacation at their seniority? Is there sick time reinstated? I'd just like to know if the time these people lost while they were away from the company while I remained here is accounted for and docked from their seniority. It doesn't seem fair that if I stay here and follow the rules and they seem to be rewarded for bad behaviour.
Anyone know?????

I am surprised you feel this way. And I am a little ashamed just the same for you. Are you so perfect that you can't realize that sometimes in a lifetime people go through a hard time in their life. There is no such thing as perfectness everyday of your life. Life brings you happiness, sadness, trials, and tribulations. How you deal with them makes you either conqour your problems or succomb to them.

In this world there are success stories to the hardships of life. If you open your eyes you might see that people you know have gone through a far worse time in life than you could ever imagine. Sometimes people make bad choices, and for that they are disiplined. However, given an opportunity to make things right is the least we can do for them. I can't answer if these people retain seniority, vacation, etc. But just the same, I am glad the union who protects us within the guidelines of the CBA, can also insure that those who do have a problem, get help, work the program, get a second chance to make things right.

Just my opinion...

 

[flydude]

CHANGE OF SUBJECT----SINCE WE ONLY HAVE THIS ONE AFA THREAD.......

I have a question. There are people coming back who were fired for the use of illegal drugs. Now that you get a second chance and rehab if you test positive, I guess that means those who were let go previously can come back. I just heard of a guy let go 4 years ago who was in recurrent saying he got his job back due to this new change.

So, here's the question...Do these people lose anything for being crack heads or whatever and getting fired. Do they come back at their original seniority?? Are they given the same amount of vacation at their seniority? Is there sick time reinstated? I'd just like to know if the time these people lost while they were away from the company while I remained here is accounted for and docked from their seniority. It doesn't seem fair that if I stay here and follow the rules and they seem to be rewarded for bad behaviour.
Anyone know?????

There are 2 F/A back online who were fired for crystal meth use. Does this mean that you can basically use illegal drugs until you're caught?? I am all for second chances, but if this is the new policy concerning drug use I find it awful. I was always under the impression that you had to admit to a problem and go to rehab., before you actually test positive for illegal drugs. Does anyone know why this changed?

 

[missthe727]

I am surprised you feel this way. And I am a little ashamed just the same for you. Are you so perfect that you can't realize that sometimes in a lifetime people go through a hard time in their life. There is no such thing as perfectness everyday of your life. Life brings you happiness, sadness, trials, and tribulations. How you deal with them makes you either conqour your problems or succomb to them.

In this world there are success stories to the hardships of life. If you open your eyes you might see that people you know have gone through a far worse time in life than you could ever imagine. Sometimes people make bad choices, and for that they are disiplined. However, given an opportunity to make things right is the least we can do for them. I can't answer if these people retain seniority, vacation, etc. But just the same, I am glad the union who protects us within the guidelines of the CBA, can also insure that those who do have a problem, get help, work the program, get a second chance to make things right.

Just my opinion...

Ashamed for me? WHY ?? because when they were hired they were told they could not use illegal drugs and they went through a hard time in their life so they chose to use mother's little helper when they KNEW they would lose their job. This is almost like justifying a pilot flying drunk because his wife is divorcing him and he is having a hard time. Do we accept that?

If these people were tested positive and fired on the job then they were most likely USING on the job which jeopardizes my safety, yours and the safety of our passengers.

I'm glad that they got help and are clean now but how long did it take before they were caught the first time and who will know if they relapse? I have no idea. So, let's DO give them a second chance, that's fine with me BUT, what I asked in the original thread was what do they retain while they were off line/fired for illegal drug use while I am still here doing my job and NOT using illegal drugs? Do we reward bad behaviour with not only their employment back but with all the benefits and seniority too???

 

[YVINTERN]

We’ve had mandatory drug testing since 1991. Anybody who has poor enough judgment to use drugs, has absolutely no business being a FA.

You'd be shocked how many Mesa FAs would be fired/suspended if they all had to pee in a cup right now today...This is shocking and I do NOT whistleblow on my friends but I am very CONCERNED about how Mesa is running the show in PHX for now...oh and June 5 is supposedly the day Mesa files CH11 protection when they close Freedom Airlines down.

 

[N965VJ]

After hearing about a 19 year old Compass FA setting a fire in a lav because they were mad about being assigned a trip, I’m not surprised. A combination of low wages and low qualifications to keep warm bodies filling out job applications, just breeds this kind of nonsense.

But the thought of not one, but two mainline FAs coming back after being found using illegal drugs just baffles the mind.

 

[songbirdstew]

Ashamed for me? WHY ?? because when they were hired they were told they could not use illegal drugs and they went through a hard time in their life so they chose to use mother's little helper when they KNEW they would lose their job. This is almost like justifying a pilot flying drunk because his wife is divorcing him and he is having a hard time. Do we accept that?

If these people were tested positive and fired on the job then they were most likely USING on the job which jeopardizes my safety, yours and the safety of our passengers.

I'm glad that they got help and are clean now but how long did it take before they were caught the first time and who will know if they relapse? I have no idea. So, let's DO give them a second chance, that's fine with me BUT, what I asked in the original thread was what do they retain while they were off line/fired for illegal drug use while I am still here doing my job and NOT using illegal drugs? Do we reward bad behaviour with not only their employment back but with all the benefits and seniority too???

LMAO !!!! Now I'm REALLY ashamed you sister !!! Look at your last question:

"Do we reward bad behaviour with not only their employment back but with all their benefits and seniority too???"

OF COURSE WE DO !! LOL !!!! This is USAirways...we reward out top management for bad behavior/management and they keep their jobs PLUS get million dollar bonuses !! :huh: :huh: :huh:

 

[N965VJ]

Let’s just send all the Employee Ethics handbooks to our young friend Grasshopper.

He can use them to line the bottom of Mitzi’s birdcage.

 

[700UW]

Maybe it has something to do with a CEO who has three DUIs and was representing US at a golf tournament and got busted for DUI?

From 1994:

Airline Chairman Cited for Drug Possession

 

[songbirdstew]

I am all for second chances, but if this is the new policy concerning drug use I find it awful. I was always under the impression that you had to admit to a problem and go to rehab., before you actually test positive for illegal drugs. Does anyone know why this changed?

Next thing you know, those cleaners who were fired after being caught stealing will go through kleptomania 12-step therapy and be given their jobs back too. :blink:
On a serious note, while I know that there are many people with addiction problems, we also have the EAP plus there are FREE NA and AA meetings worldwide. Some people should learn to use these resources before it is too late...

 

[galley princess]

Revisiting the previous subject, Sharktooth, I believe that the portal to dropping the Me Too's would lie with the AWA contract. I'm guessing here, but I don't think that they have Me toos.

I am of mixed feelings about it, but the reality is, AFA seems to negotiate better than ALPA did, and that's not saying much.

West has trans-con turns, which are extremely productive. Now, I realize that here at ole East that would translate into 15 legs on a 737, but increasingly our membership is more interested in maximizing time. Negotiate a duty day and then perhaps maximizing time wouldn't be too excoriating.

It does have to be explored, because currently West has this and it would most likely cause a disruption for them to lose it.

 

[safety stud]

Ashamed for me? WHY ?? because when they were hired they were told they could not use illegal drugs and they went through a hard time in their life so they chose to use mother's little helper when they KNEW they would lose their job.

Everyone knows the rules. That is beside the point. For the mass majority of our employees, they are clean, tested, and scrutinized. Just as you are scrutinizing those that have a problem. Are you saying people that are using (regardless of what it is) should not be given the opportunity to make amends? You sound as if you have never done wrong in your life, if that is the case, God Bless, you are one of a kind...

This is almost like justifying a pilot flying drunk because his wife is divorcing him and he is having a hard time. Do we accept that?

This thread is about AFA, not the pilot group. Besides, since when is a flight attendant going to be assigined to sit in the right seat of the cockpit and land in DCA with a 25 knot crosswind (After a long night out at the bar)....HHHHMMMM..... The same union you love to get down on is the same union that protects all of its members including you and I. And who is to say divorce is causing this... It could be a number of things...

If these people were tested positive and fired on the job then they were most likely USING on the job which jeopardizes my safety, yours and the safety of our passengers.

A fair assumtion, but still an ASSuption at that...

I have no idea.

Obviously...

So, let's DO give them a second chance, that's fine with me

Finally... words of wisdom...

BUT, what I asked in the original thread was what do they retain while they were off line/fired for illegal drug use while I am still here doing my job and NOT using illegal drugs?

What is it you want? Reward for being perfect? Reward for never having a problem? Reward for never being sick? What?...

Do we reward bad behaviour with not only their employment back but with all the benefits and seniority too???

I am sure that is all discussed at THEIR meeting with the company. Which should be none of your concern, nor mine for that matter...

727

You have a very high opinion of yourself, I hope you can live with being perfect in every way. I know, I will never be as perfect as you see yourself, though I may strive each day to try...
One day at a time....

Just my opinion...

 

[beachboy]

Coming from a charter that did a Europe flight and then sat 2 hours to fly the plane half way across the country, I can tell you this is a BAD IDEA. I remember landing on the DC-10 dangling in the jumpseat almost in a coma! Be productive? Please, I have no interest in a PHL-SFO-PHL duty day. I would rather slit my wrists. I remember doing that trip a few years back that went Day 1 : PHL-AUA-CLT Day 2: CLT-AUA-PHL. It paid 16 plus hours. I did it back to back and about died. I needed an IV drip! And don't' tell me your safe and not tired by the end of it. You think you will get a rest period? Please! Be careful what you're treading on guys. This is like skilled surgery. You can build in protections but you better know exactly what you're doing before you cut that me-2 rope.

 

[N965VJ]

A little toot for the snoot ought to help on those long duty days.

And I heard someone got melted cheese all over the microwave in the new PIT Crew Room.

What was this thread about?