Aircraft maint issues

[Buck]

Scope and seniority is everything. But most of the time if the company knows you can be bought, they will do it. Especially if the membership is not really involved.

Now you are starting to understand the TWU....

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles, Scope is the big one here. Unless the company changes its position, WHATEVER, it may be, I do not see a TA anytime soon. Add this to the LAA medical vs LUS medical issue, it may take a long time. I might very well be wrong, but we shall see.

I “think” more people here on Forums have made the TWU vs IAM Medical issue an actual item more so than it really is?

Again except for Airline Forums I’m just not seeing or reading an issue anywhere? Has anyone watched Parker or Isom talk about it at any Roadshows?

Are “WE” the ones making a Mountain out of a molehill?

 

[Vortilon]

Wouldn’t it be ironic if SCOPE is actually finished after all as this rep I guess informed you? Don’t know if you read it Vortilon but CB on the Fleet thread said they were told to book Hotel rooms through the weekend.

Well let’s see if we get any word by Friday?

BTW Delta placed their PS back to what it was when Parker was running around the Country saying Delta plus 7%, just a little reminder.

Same union rep also stated that on the company proposal, there were some true industry leading items; unfortunately, when the whole package was compared to the other airlines - ours was a solid 3rd place. One huge item was the vacation accrual, we gave up two weeks - the recent company proposal was to leave us at only 5 weeks max. That is a non starter for most. Of course the scope will play a huge part. Company pretty much wants to contract out facilities, and auto maintenance totally, as well as a large part of stores. Of course they also want to continue to outsource a larger part of aircraft overhaul. Hopefully, they can reach a common ground that doesn't end up with us looking at a TA that looks concessionary to save headcount again. Not gonna fall for that again.

 

[AA89]

Please stop blaming everything on deregulation.

Is American Airlines making record profit? Yes.

Will you as a group give up compensation to save jobs? Yes.

Will the UNION sacrifice your benefits to keep your base pay and headcount high so they can collect more dues? Yes.

NONE of these have anything to do with deregulation.

They ALL have to do with fear and control.

Not blaming deregulation alone but it started us down this road. With deregulation came low cost carriers and outsourcing.
Fear? No it’s as simple as whether or not a person is willing to vote themselves out of a job. Probably more like wanting to pay the bills.
And yeah, I did say AA is making too much money now and it shouldn’t be an issue but it is. Time will tell what gets voted in this time.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Fear? No it’s as simple as whether or not a person is willing to vote themselves out of a job. Probably more like wanting to pay the bills.

Willing to vote themselves out of a job?

Do you really think you are retaining jobs following the tactics you are using now?

I can tell you I am a statistic of that tactic NOT being successful.

I am a casualty of the last contract. My choices were to bump (with only 12 years) or take a permanent layoff. I chose the layoff. In my case it worked out for the better but not all of my coworkers were so lucky.

 

[WeAAsles]

Same union rep also stated that on the company proposal, there were some true industry leading items; unfortunately, when the whole package was compared to the other airlines - ours was a solid 3rd place. One huge item was the vacation accrual, we gave up two weeks - the recent company proposal was to leave us at only 5 weeks max. That is a non starter for most. Of course the scope will play a huge part. Company pretty much wants to contract out facilities, and auto maintenance totally, as well as a large part of stores. Of course they also want to continue to outsource a larger part of aircraft overhaul. Hopefully, they can reach a common ground that doesn't end up with us looking at a TA that looks concessionary to save headcount again. Not gonna fall for that again.

Yea but it sounded like from what you wrote they’ve gotten past all of that if they’re working on economic issues now? Insurance, Retirement and Wages.

Otherwise I’ve heard about all the stuff you just mentioned.

 

[AA89]

Willing to vote themselves out of a job?

Do you really think you are retaining jobs following the tactics you are using now?

I can tell you I am a statistic of that tactic NOT being successful.

I am a casualty of the last contract. My choices were to bump (with only 12 years) or take a permanent layoff. I chose the layoff. In my case it worked out for the better but not all of my coworkers were so lucky.

My point is no legacy airline has retained jobs in the last 40 years no matter how they voted. I believe job losses were imposed on UAL and DAL in Bankruptcy.
If you are referring to the BK contract I think we knew there would be job losses but less if we voted yes. I know we knew AFW was closing from the get go.
Either way we had voted we would still be stuck with this same old 6 year $hit $andwich lagging the industry.
I know alot of guys that took the transfer facing your choice. Glad it worked out for you. Hopefully they will make it home after this contract but I don’t see it.

 

[swamt]

No. No it's not their privilege. Not in a premium classification.

If a Mechanic from the APU shop or Engine shop, with more seniority than you wants to bump or bid into your department and take your days off or job assignment, then that's his/her privilege. In that classification.

But if that person bumps or bids into a "higher capacity", or premium (ie., more pay) position like Inspection, and they have less time... in that position..... then they are junior to you in that premium position only. No matter how long they have with the company.

It's the only fair way in a premium position.

Your seniority should take you where ever your seniority takes you period. That's in any position and any classification. 30 year mechanic should bid on leads or cc's or inspectors positions with his 30 years seniority. And once he is in there he should continue bidding with his 30 years seniority not day one of seniority just because he came into a new position, and up against a 5 year man with 2 years of lead, cc, or inspector seniority that gets positions or days off before the 30 year guy, no way in hell, that taking seniority from the 30 year man. That's the BS way of doing it. I do believe that's how the IAM does it.

 

[swamt]

IMHO I see changes in scope, insurance and RIF language to just name a few. LAA are already seeing and feeling the effects in scope, Looking at ASOM every night we see more work being done by vendors. I do not see any reason to expect that to change. We don`t like it one bit but are stuck I`m sure it will only get worse. LUS is used to lots of work being farmed out, so no big deal in their eyes.

Insurance. LUS does not want LAA insurance, much as we do not want LUS scope. Guess what? We are are going to get stuck with LUS scope, already are, and LUS IS going to end up with LAA insurance IMHO.

RIF language. As I understand the IAM language you can bump where your senority will allow but no recall. LAA has recall rights but also the anti union company friendly juniority bumping system.

These are just my thoughts on how this thing will lean. We are all going to have parts of this thing we will not like. I`m pretty sure we will also be underwhelmed on a JCBA that is sure to be less than industry leading.

Just more of the indifferences of these two unions and a decision will have to be made which way to run them in the future. Huge headaches coming as you said. But I think both sides will be butt hurt at the end of all this not just one side. The sad part is, it sounds as the TWU side still has no clue on what the changes are and the IM side does know. This non communication will explode at T/A time when the membership his hit square in the face with all the changes coming.

 

[swamt]

Talked to one of the Union reps yesterday, they are down to 3 articles to TA. Anyway, they are supposed to address compensation starting today. That should be fairly straight forward - Delta or UAL plus 3%.
On the issue of submitting a full contract proposal, that approach could potentially put at risk already TA'd articles. With 3 articles left, probably not a good idea. That is the jist of what was explained by the union rep.

Noooooo. The counter should be hard held by the asso at D or U + 7% not 3%. If this asso does not hold the co. to the 7% then once again they did not nego any raises for you guys they simply caved to Parkers numbers and agreed is all, as usual.

 

[swamt]

Without having a crystal ball, I think we can all agree that SCOPE is the biggie here. Then the medical. But being kept in the dark about just about every article that has been TA'd or proposed by the company, we can only speculate.

And that's what starts all the misinformation and rumors to swirl out of control. I honestly think most will go nuts once they see all the changes coming to them. If they would have divulged little by little it would not be as hard to take, you guys are going to get it all on T/A release day and it will not be good, nor industry leading as promised.

 

[ATD]

What you meant to say was "IT WILL BE INDUSTRY LACKING"

 

[swamt]

Same union rep also stated that on the company proposal, there were some true industry leading items; unfortunately, when the whole package was compared to the other airlines - ours was a solid 3rd place. One huge item was the vacation accrual, we gave up two weeks - the recent company proposal was to leave us at only 5 weeks max. That is a non starter for most. Of course the scope will play a huge part. Company pretty much wants to contract out facilities, and auto maintenance totally, as well as a large part of stores. Of course they also want to continue to outsource a larger part of aircraft overhaul. Hopefully, they can reach a common ground that doesn't end up with us looking at a TA that looks concessionary to save headcount again. Not gonna fall for that again.

3rd place? Are you kidding? What ever happened to industry leading? The largest airline out there deserves to be leading the packs. This asso. should be telling the company to pack sand unless it's industry leading, period.

 

[B737 driver]

Your seniority should take you where ever your seniority takes you period. That's in any position and any classification. 30 year mechanic should bid on leads or cc's or inspectors positions with his 30 years seniority. And once he is in there he should continue bidding with his 30 years seniority not day one of seniority just because he came into a new position, and up against a 5 year man with 2 years of lead, cc, or inspector seniority that gets positions or days off before the 30 year guy, no way in hell, that taking seniority from the 30 year man. That's the BS way of doing it. I do believe that's how the IAM does it.

Swaamt I heard one of the things are maint controllers wanted was classification seniority as a lead that is a non starter for me. The road shows were good. We will get there.

 

[WeAAsles]

And that's what starts all the misinformation and rumors to swirl out of control. I honestly think most will go nuts once they see all the changes coming to them. If they would have divulged little by little it would not be as hard to take, you guys are going to get it all on T/A release day and it will not be good, nor industry leading as promised.

This man works for Southwest Airlines, not American Airlines.

What he “thinks” he knows he speculates on.

And he lives in an extremely LARGE GLASS HOUSE.