AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[WeAAsles]

Pure speculation on your part about how AMFA would have handled it.

How is it speculation? Have they ever won a Court case? Off the top of my head I can’t honestly recall any wins?

Sorry, but it's not worthy of wiping my ass with!

Probably why no one got you a shirt then.

 

[swamt]

How is it speculation? Have they ever won a Court case? Off the top of my head I can’t honestly recall any wins?




Probably why no one got you a shirt then.

Yes, they have won a many cases brought in front of them over the years.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, they have won a many cases brought in front of them over the years.

Yea right, when?

AIRCRAFT MECHANICS FRATERNAL ASSOCIATION v. ATLANTIC COAST AIRLINES (1997) | FindLaw

Case opinion for US 2nd Circuit AIRCRAFT MECHANICS FRATERNAL ASSOCIATION v. ATLANTIC COAST AIRLINES. Read the Court's full decision on FindLaw.

caselaw.findlaw.com

 

[WeAAsles]

Here’s some more fodder that admittedly does nothing more than help to support your cause. Enjoy kids.

 

[WeAAsles]

AMT’s. Drama, Drama, Drama.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Here’s some more fodder that admittedly does nothing more than help to support your cause. Enjoy kids.

View attachment 16126

WeAAsles;

In this letter from the IAM in the second last paragragh In other post you stated that AMFA failed, in its attempt at a raid. By NOT collecting the appropriate numbers to satisfy the NMB. It has also been said that card signers forged signatures to give AMFA the numbers so that they could file cards asking for an election by the M&R employees of AA.

I just have a Question; Just what did the ASSOCIATION Reps do to derail the AMFA Card drive? Are they the ones who forged the signatures just like what Happened during the IBT card drive at USAirway in the past?

Just asking????

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles;

In this letter from the IAM in the second last paragragh In other post you stated that AMFA failed, in its attempt at a raid. By NOT collecting the appropriate numbers to satisfy the NMB. It has also been said that card signers forged signatures to give AMFA the numbers so that they could file cards asking for an election by the M&R employees of AA.

I just have a Question; Just what did the ASSOCIATION Reps do to derail the AMFA Card drive? Are they the ones who forged the signatures just like what Happened during the IBT card drive at USAirway in the past?

Just asking????

Being fair to you good point. You’re right that anyone could have submitted cards to you with false signatures. You likely even had supporters for all 3 Unions submitting cards? The same accusations were hurled a few years back for Delta FA’s looking to be represented by the IAM. Organizers even had Facebook screen shots where non Union supporters actually admitted and gloated about sending in fake cards to derail the drive. If you remember even the DOJ was investigating. That whole thing just seemed to disappear and was forgotten.

Being realistic though I just don’t think any Union (AMFA, TWU, IAM) could get the actual 50% plus 1 cards in the space of a year. You just have too many people spread all over the place and the majority only care that they’re being paid fairly and have a contract.

I’m sure as an organizer yourself you see for real how many people just don’t put it at the top of their priority list.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I have a Question for the TWU/IAM supporters here???

Being the the NMB ruled that the flight simulator tech, de-icers, fleet tow team members, LAV truck operators are part of the M&R class and craft. Just what is the ASSOCIATION doing to remove the language from the Fleet contract since those are M&R jobs. What is the ASSOCIATION doing for M&R to protect the jobs now classified as M&R functions? Will the ASSOCIATION file some type of grievance with AA so that other M&R employees can bid those jobs.

Are those employees that are doing those jobs NOW forbidden to BID back into fleet jobs since they are Part of M&R?

Will they be required to follow the same rules that Maintenance is while moving aircraft? Since from past experience M&R was told that Fleet is NOT required to Follow the guidelines set forth in the Maintenance GPM.?

Will AA get with the ASSOCIATION and readjust the salary of the M&R employees, since they are NO LONGER Fleet workers?

Will you as a Fleet supporter and member fight for the rights of other Fleet members since these workers who are part of M&R try to bid jobs to get out of the weather, or for better days off, or just for any other reason? How will the TWU reps handle the rights of fleet members?

Again just asking?

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Being fair to you good point. You’re right that anyone could have submitted cards to you with false signatures. You likely even had supporters for all 3 Unions submitting cards? The same accusations were hurled a few years back for Delta FA’s looking to be represented by the IAM. Organizers even had Facebook screen shots where non Union supporters actually admitted and gloated about sending in fake cards to derail the drive. If you remember even the DOJ was investigating. That whole thing just seemed to disappear and was forgotten.

Being realistic though I just don’t think any Union (AMFA, TWU, IAM) could get the actual 50% plus 1 cards in the space of a year. You just have too many people spread all over the place and the majority only care that they’re being paid fairly and have a contract.

I’m sure as an organizer yourself you see for real how many people just don’t put it at the top of their priority list.

WeAAsles;

The difference between the TUW/IAM/IBT and AMFA is that cards are collected by the Organizers at each station. There is NO direct link to AMFA. There isn't a Paid Organizing division. Also the collection Point of cards is sent to the Headquarters of each of these industrial unions which is located Wash. DC. The cards collected by the AMFA grass root Organizers are sent to DFW to the people there who are AA employees who maintain a DB and have to on their own time sort and put cards in the order that the NMB requires.

YOU are 100% correct about members of M&R putting any UNION high on their priority list. The BS that has been perpetrated against the employees of AA and allowed by the IAM and the TWU has made most disheartened about what any union can do there at AA.

I Truly believe that AA's employees are that are Union represented are that in name only. My belief is that they are MORE NON-UNION and I GOT MINE TYPES.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have a Question for the TWU/IAM supporters here???

Being the the NMB ruled that the flight simulator tech, de-icers, fleet tow team members are part of the M&R class and craft. Just what is the ASSOCIATION doing to remove the language from the Fleet contract since those are M&R jobs. What is the ASSOCIATION doing for M&R to protect the jobs now classified as M&R functions? Will the ASSOCIATION file some type of grievance with AA so that other M&R employees can bid those jobs.

Are those employees that are doing those jobs NOW forbidden to BID back into fleet jobs since they are Part of M&R?

Will they be required to follow the same rules that Maintenance is while moving aircraft? Since from past experience M&R was told that Fleet is NOT required to Follow the guidelines set forth in the Maintenance GPM.?

Will AA get with the ASSOCIATION and readjust the salary of the M&R employees, since they are NO LONGER Fleet workers?

Again just asking?

Again being honest you know the answer to all those questions. We would likely have the same problem as you if Fleet were ever to try and go with a different Union? We used to do a bunch of jobs that we don’t do anymore but those jobs are still in our scope that we can do them. Deicing included.

Truth though you also knew the NMB was going to add all those people because they’ve done it before. Under those circumstances you would have been better off filing with way more cards then you did. That’s means at least 60% plus of the names you know you’re able to get directly in M&R.

Question: Are you even able to get a list of names of people working in Deicing, Lavs, and Tow Crews? Because one bid the names could be very different than the next bid if people bid to do something else.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Being realistic though I just don’t think any Union (AMFA, TWU, IAM) could get the actual 50% plus 1 cards in the space of a year. You just have too many people spread all over the place and the majority only care that they’re being paid fairly and have a contract.

With this statement I have to disagree the members of M&R at USAirways did get 50% +1 and a vote and LOST. They Lost due to the fact their pension and medical was threatened. Just like in the current Contract it states that any change in Union representation medical and Pensions could be in Jeopardy. If the IAM members read and understand the medical they are enjoying NOW has been negotiated away in the next few yrs. They will have what they have for next yr, and possibly the year after even if there is another card filing from the AMFA Organizers.

You know that your medical has gone up every Year, so the % percentage of raises that you get in the contract is nullified. So who is to BLAME for that?

Surely it isn't AMFA.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles;

The difference between the TUW/IAM/IBT and AMFA is that cards are collected by the Organizers at each station. There is NO direct link to AMFA. There isn't a Paid Organizing division. Also the collection Point of cards is sent to the Headquarters of each of these industrial unions which is located Wash. DC. The cards collected by the AMFA grass root Organizers are sent to DFW to the people there who are AA employees who maintain a DB and have to on their own time sort and put cards in the order that the NMB requires.

YOU are 100% correct about members of M&R putting any UNION high on their priority list. The BS that has been perpetrated against the employees of AA and allowed by the IAM and the TWU has made most disheartened about what any union can do there at AA.

I Truly believe that AA's employees are that are Union represented are that in name only. My belief is that they are MORE NON-UNION and I GOT MINE TYPES.

I also think more people are satisfied with their current pay and benefits than you think. Did you see dfwgen bragging about his $125k a few comments back. Card drives have more of a chance when people are mad and hungry frankly, not when they’re fat and happy.

Yes there are lots of people who don’t like the Association. It is dysfunctional obviously from reading these back and forth’s. The Company I’m sure thinks they’re idiots when they squabble and squawk at each other. It makes all of us look like a bunch of uneducated buffoons. There I said it. But no one who’s up on those hills is going to give up their personal cash cows so we’re stuck with it.

So all I care about is that they got me a Contract and I find it acceptable. And they have gotten that for me. The rest is nothing but a distraction sometimes funny and sometimes boring honestly.

 

[WeAAsles]

With this statement I have to disagree the members of M&R at USAirways did get 50% +1 and a vote and LOST. They Lost due to the fact their pension and medical was threatened. Just like in the current Contract it states that any change in Union representation medical and Pensions could be in Jeopardy. If the IAM members read and understand the medical they are enjoying NOW has been negotiated away in the next few yrs. They will have what they have for next yr, and possibly the year after even if there is another card filing from the AMFA Organizers.

You know that your medical has gone up every Year, so the % percentage of raises that you get in the contract is nullified. So who is to BLAME for that?

Surely it isn't AMFA.

They got the 50% plus 1 because they were angry and hungry. And they only had 4376 eligible employees. What did the NMB say you have? Over 15,000 right. That’s over 7000 plus legitimate cards you have to get signed in one year. Much harder than 2200.

My Medical last year went up 6%. I was paying about $100 per month so my Medical went up by $6.00. I don’t think that’s anything that breaks the bank. As far as the IAM Medical charges they keep the 80/20 plan until it sunsets as they retire. Medical in the USA period sucks. Truthfully I wish all my benefits were totally Al La Carte. I’m smart enough to be able to handle how I disburse my income. Unfortunately most of our coworkers aren’t though.

But anyway are you telling me that AMFA was able to negotiate a cap on their Medical creep at SWA? If they were able to accomplish that I would say that’s something you should be selling about them. Otherwise honestly AA, DL, UAL and SWA are all compensated pretty much in line with each other.

 

[WeAAsles]

Will you as a Fleet supporter and member fight for the rights of other Fleet members since these workers who are part of M&R try to bid jobs to get out of the weather, or for better days off, or just for any other reason? How will the TWU reps handle the rights of fleet members?

Again just asking?

You edited and added this so let me come back to it. I’m not sure what you’re asking for? Those Fleet members are only part of M&R as recognized by the NMB for a representational challenge. Personally I agree that they shouldn’t be counted with your group. But I have no say in that.

I kept wondering if you did get a vote and went with AMFA would those people doing that work have been screwed royally? My guess is they would have been? They would have been absorbed into the AMFA and had no licenses. They also wouldn’t have been part of the Association any longer so those names would have been struck from our rosters.

At least that’s my guess what would happen to them. That’s also why I’ll avoid bidding that work just in case.

BTW I think I’m just about done fighting personally. Im 56 and at the end of our Contracts I’ll be 60. Now I’m just trying to teach the next generation how to stand up for themselves.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

You edited and added this so let me come back to it. I’m not sure what you’re asking for? Those Fleet members are only part of M&R as recognized by the NMB for a representational challenge. Personally I agree that they shouldn’t be counted with your group. But I have no say in that.

I kept wondering if you did get a vote and went with AMFA would those people doing that work have been screwed royally? My guess is they would have been? They would have been absorbed into the AMFA and had no licenses. They also wouldn’t have been part of the Association any longer so those names would have been struck from our rosters.

At least that’s my guess what would happen to them. That’s also why I’ll avoid bidding that work just in case.

BTW I think I’m just about done fighting personally. Im 56 and at the end of our Contracts I’ll be 60. Now I’m just trying to teach the next generation how to stand up for themselves.

FYI AMFA represents more than people with a license. MY question was those members part of the M&R c/c will the association fight for the rights of fleet workers that are in the bag room for example who get bumped to the line to chuck bags during the winter months by the senior tow team guys.

Will the Association turn a blind eye to those members and allow them to bid in/out of M&R and Fleet? If so that would be a misrepresentation on the part of the Association reps. both on the maintenance and fleet sides.