AMR Bankruptcy Update: Docket # 3084 Debtors [proposed] Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law

[737823]

False?

Comprehension problems?

AA did not file Chapter 11 in 2003 and all unions on their property gave concessions.

Truth!

You make this way too easy!

I'll direct you to re-read your own post, I do not have comprehension difficulties it appears you have difficulties with facts or at the very least articulating your thoughts in posts. Now to your post:

<snip>
And at AA, they were in Chapter 11 in 2003 when they gave concessions, same at CO with IBT and other unions.

I understand and forgive you if you made an error, but I don't understand why you resort to attacking me for a factual error on your part. One thing I've learned in my career is its always best to take ownership whenever you mess up whether with a client, colleague or even a superior. Everyone makes mistakes and there is a lot of forgiveness and tolerance in people-even clients and bosses. The worst thing to do is to shift the blame, throw others under the bus, and attacking others certainly isn't a good approach. Just a little sense for you.

700UW posted (mistakenly, I assume) that AA was in Ch 11 in 2003 when the concessions were imposed. Josh pounced on that, thinking that 700UW didn't know what he's talking about. 700UW then responded that Josh doesn't know what he's talking about. And I'm guessing that the last sentence in post #52 contains a typo - that 700UW meant to post that AA was NOT in Ch 11 in 2003.

Not sure, I'm aware of the recent history at AMR and they certainly did not file in 2003. Sure the threat and possibility existed but it didn't happen until Tuesday, November 29, 2011.

700UW has been wrong before and similarly resorts to attacking me (among others) when they may point out his inaccuracies. We were discussing US and he confidently stated US was the second largest carrier to the Caribbean, when it turns out AA and JetBlue are the largest and US is a distant FIFTH!

http://airlineforums...us/#entry887797

http://airlineforums..._10#entry887895



Similarly you asked him why he is wrong when correcting others:
http://airlineforums..._20#entry887950


Josh

 

[700UW]

It was a typo.

 

[737823]

It was a typo.

Easy for you to say now. Doesn't change the fact you attacked me. Like I said, making a mistake is fine but take ownership for your shortcomings don't attack others not that I really care what you think of me.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Aww did I hurt your feelings?

Oh wait, thats right financial people dont have those.

And when you stop lying about the IAM and especially the seniority integration at AA, then maybe you can take ownership of your blatant lies and misinformation.

If you didnt care about how I feel about you, you wouldnt have mentioned it, lol.

 

[Dilligas]

<snip> "US kept most of their workrules such as doubletime, Holidays, Vacation and sick time." <snip>

The painful reality of BK concessions and contract abrogation has yet to hit the AA unionized workforce. As an interested observer, I have been surprised at the disconnect from reality and blatantly incorrect information from some AA people, especially when they discount the harshness of the BK process and its effect on one's livelihood.

I think part of that disconnect I perceive is due to AA's rather gentle approach to the process. At US Airways, it was brutal, quick, and long lasting. The contracts were gutted. For a local president at AA to state that employees at US "kept most of their workrules such as doubletime, Holidays, Vacation and sick time" is either shocking ignorance of history or a deliberate distortion of historical fact to support an agenda.

Facts:
- Immediate 21% paycuts across the board, followed by another small cut later.
- Massive work rule changes.
- Loss of paid lunch
- Massive layoffs and outsourcing
- Loss of vacation from a max of 7 weeks after 30 years service to a max of 4 weeks (now restored to 5)
- Loss of Holidays ( almost 50% as I recall but don't remember the exact number)
- Loss of doubletime after 12 hours duty in a day
- Loss of doubletime if you worked both days off if you took a day off that same week
- Loss of fulltime sick pay.... first 3 days paid at 50% if sick bank under 100 days

-Basically they took almost everything they could, and more than needed for sure.

I don't want any AA employees to lose what they have. But it's coming, and those of you who candycoat the impact of a contract abrogation and the very real and personal losses that employees at other airlines went through, and what AA people will suffer soon, need to be called out on your misstatements.

I'm not saying AA will steal as much as US did from employees. But they can get away with it should they choose to, and US employees were absolutely slammed. The statement by Bob quoted above is ridiculous.

 

[Hopeful]

The painful reality of BK concessions and contract abrogation has yet to hit the AA unionized workforce. As an interested observer, I have been surprised at the disconnect from reality and blatantly incorrect information from some AA people, especially when they discount the harshness of the BK process and its effect on one's livelihood.

I think part of that disconnect I perceive is due to AA's rather gentle approach to the process. At US Airways, it was brutal, quick, and long lasting. The contracts were gutted. For a local president at AA to state that employees at US "kept most of their workrules such as doubletime, Holidays, Vacation and sick time" is either shocking ignorance of history or a deliberate distortion of historical fact to support an agenda.

Facts:
- Immediate 21% paycuts across the board, followed by another small cut later.
- Massive work rule changes.
- Loss of paid lunch
- Massive layoffs and outsourcing
- Loss of vacation from a max of 7 weeks after 30 years service to a max of 4 weeks (now restored to 5)
- Loss of Holidays ( almost 50% as I recall but don't remember the exact number)
- Loss of doubletime after 12 hours duty in a day
- Loss of doubletime if you worked both days off if you took a day off that same week
- Loss of fulltime sick pay.... first 3 days paid at 50% if sick bank under 100 days

-Basically they took almost everything they could, and more than needed for sure.

I don't want any AA employees to lose what they have. But it's coming, and those of you who candycoat the impact of a contract abrogation and the very real and personal losses that employees at other airlines went through, and what AA people will suffer soon, need to be called out on your misstatements.

I'm not saying AA will steal as much as US did from employees. But they can get away with it should they choose to, and US employees were absolutely slammed. The statement by Bob quoted above is ridiculous.

Well put..
Many AAers sadly are going to be in for a rude awakening.

 

[TWU informer]

The painful reality of BK concessions and contract abrogation has yet to hit the AA unionized workforce. As an interested observer, I have been surprised at the disconnect from reality and blatantly incorrect information from some AA people, especially when they discount the harshness of the BK process and its effect on one's livelihood.

I think part of that disconnect I perceive is due to AA's rather gentle approach to the process. At US Airways, it was brutal, quick, and long lasting. The contracts were gutted. For a local president at AA to state that employees at US "kept most of their workrules such as doubletime, Holidays, Vacation and sick time" is either shocking ignorance of history or a deliberate distortion of historical fact to support an agenda.

Facts:
- Immediate 21% paycuts across the board, followed by another small cut later.
- Massive work rule changes.
- Loss of paid lunch
- Massive layoffs and outsourcing
- Loss of vacation from a max of 7 weeks after 30 years service to a max of 4 weeks (now restored to 5)
- Loss of Holidays ( almost 50% as I recall but don't remember the exact number)
- Loss of doubletime after 12 hours duty in a day
- Loss of doubletime if you worked both days off if you took a day off that same week
- Loss of fulltime sick pay.... first 3 days paid at 50% if sick bank under 100 days

-Basically they took almost everything they could, and more than needed for sure.

I don't want any AA employees to lose what they have. But it's coming, and those of you who candycoat the impact of a contract abrogation and the very real and personal losses that employees at other airlines went through, and what AA people will suffer soon, need to be called out on your misstatements.

I'm not saying AA will steal as much as US did from employees. But they can get away with it should they choose to, and US employees were absolutely slammed. The statement by Bob quoted above is ridiculous.

There is no doubt that Bankruptcy will be harsh, but I wll not give it up on a volunteer basis. To do so would be ridiculous in my opinion. Maybe you should go ahead and vote yes and then celebrate in the streets once you give away everything you own without a fight. You could even post on other BK Carriers forum for the next 20 years how great it felt to give it up as a volunteer.

 

[Mr Red]

The painful reality of BK concessions and contract abrogation has yet to hit the AA unionized workforce. As an interested observer, I have been surprised at the disconnect from reality and blatantly incorrect information from some AA people, especially when they discount the harshness of the BK process and its effect on one's livelihood.

I think part of that disconnect I perceive is due to AA's rather gentle approach to the process. At US Airways, it was brutal, quick, and long lasting. The contracts were gutted. For a local president at AA to state that employees at US "kept most of their workrules such as doubletime, Holidays, Vacation and sick time" is either shocking ignorance of history or a deliberate distortion of historical fact to support an agenda.

Facts:
- Immediate 21% paycuts across the board, followed by another small cut later.
- Massive work rule changes.
- Loss of paid lunch
- Massive layoffs and outsourcing
- Loss of vacation from a max of 7 weeks after 30 years service to a max of 4 weeks (now restored to 5)
- Loss of Holidays ( almost 50% as I recall but don't remember the exact number)
- Loss of doubletime after 12 hours duty in a day
- Loss of doubletime if you worked both days off if you took a day off that same week
- Loss of fulltime sick pay.... first 3 days paid at 50% if sick bank under 100 days

-Basically they took almost everything they could, and more than needed for sure.

I don't want any AA employees to lose what they have. But it's coming, and those of you who candycoat the impact of a contract abrogation and the very real and personal losses that employees at other airlines went through, and what AA people will suffer soon, need to be called out on your misstatements.

I'm not saying AA will steal as much as US did from employees. But they can get away with it should they choose to, and US employees were absolutely slammed. The statement by Bob quoted above is ridiculous.

That was all taken away almost 10 years ago,WILLINGLY ! AA AMTs are DEAD LAST in PAY,BENEFITS and WORK RULES !!!BOTTOM FEEDERS thanks to the TWU !

 

[chris perry]

Yea. Here is AA-Okay now that all of our employees are disgruntled and pissed off and productivity is zero who wants to merge with us?

That makes sense!

The sad fact is it's going to pay better at US Airways for mechanic's than AA after all their BK's and concessions.., We could merge with Taco Bell at this point and be better off.

 

[700UW]

2002 and 2005 was when it happened at US.