AMT compensation

[eolesen]

It is so easy to put all that extra cash into my 401K at the end of the week....

Agree that it's probably difficult right now, but the time eventually comes and you get a raise, it really is that easy.

You're already used to living on your current paycheck, so take half the increase and put it into a 401K... Been doing that since 1995.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

if and when is the question....
And we will never get the lost time of eight years back. At 8K-10k a year thats 160K without a good return.
After the concessions it has been impossible to contribute at least for me...
Lets hope we get some monetary relief without increased medical costs

 

[Duke787]

Your voting for concessions with NOTHING in return is hugely moronic on a Biblical scale. You follow the preachings of people who you DO NOT elect, who DO NOT live under the very same contracts you so blindly vote YES for, who are UNACCOUNTABLE.

duke, you are the exact opposite of what a real Union Man is. Your inability to understand what your actions result in engrave in the minds of everyone visiting this site and stumble across your attempt at intelligent interaction a collosal bovine's rear end.

I didn't realize that by listening to my union I was destroying the very fabric of unionism.

If AMP gets in at AA, am I not to listen to them also? When you tell me how AMP negotiators are going to do so much more then the TWU, do I trust you or not, if I'm not to listen to my union reps, why am paying union dues? Do I listen to Bob Owens? He's a TWU pres. And negotiator...............

And yet nobody has answered why listening to my union is union busting?

 

[787nightmare]

I didn't realize that by listening to my union I was destroying the very fabric of unionism.

If AMP gets in at AA, am I not to listen to them also? When you tell me how AMP negotiators are going to do so much more then the TWU, do I trust you or not, if I'm not to listen to my union reps, why am paying union dues? Do I listen to Bob Owens? He's a TWU pres. And negotiator...............

And yet nobody has answered why listening to my union is union busting?

Duke...in a sense, yes...one should entrust the recommendation of the representation they employ(got that TWU?). But in the case of the TWU, I would think everybody at AA would be wise to there ploys. Either you are one faithful TWU member(no idea why), or incredibly naive. Or management.

I know one thing...you guys ever get AMP in AA...you better be ready for war with American. That means prepare to strike. Because, like NWA, I suspect AA will pull out all the stops to derail that kind of representation. We can't have a militant, accountable, mechanic STRONG union now, can we? Just wish I were there to help you guys...
I desire so much to see the professional AMT set free from the bondage that these "catch all", industrial unions afflict us with.

 

[will fix for food]

It is so easy to put all that extra cash into my 401K at the end of the week....
Are you for real??
Aint had a raise in eight years do you actually think AA pays me enough to invest
401K plans are awesome if you make enough money to invest in it.
Glad my 2000 Honda CRV is paid off wouldnt want another car paynent that might adversly affect my 401k contribution
Cant wait to see what my real estate taxes are going to be here in NY the going rates are between 9 and 15 thousand dollars. Wonder how much will be left over for my 401

I generally make it a rule not to comment on these types of posts but here it goes.

Eagle doesn't have a pension so I contribute to the 401K. I am able to contribute 10%. I have a wife and kids, a mortgage, a car payment, utilities, etc, and live in a high cost of living "cornerstone" city. Oh yea, Eagle is my only job. I don't live on OT and my wife makes less than me. And I make about $12,000 less than your top out.

Don't get me wrong, I support you guys fully in getting your concessions back, and whatever else you can get. You guys really took it in the shorts. But all the "I need two jobs to survive" and "I can't afford a dollar to invest in a 401K" drama, in my view, really is nothing but a distraction and hurts your credibility. You should get your money back because you deserve it. But to play it like you guys are starving because you make $32/hour topout hurts you in the long run IMO. Remember guys like me can make it on less working right next to you and there are tens of thousands making it on far less all around you.

Long story short, nobody likes a whiner. If it comes to the point you want and need the support of anybody outside the American Airlines TWU organization it would probably serve you well to tone down that kind of rhetoric.

OK, commence the insults and bashing.

 

[OldBubba]

I generally make it a rule not to comment on these types of posts but here it goes.

Eagle doesn't have a pension so I contribute to the 401K. I am able to contribute 10%. I have a wife and kids, a mortgage, a car payment, utilities, etc, and live in a high cost of living "cornerstone" city. Oh yea, Eagle is my only job. I don't live on OT and my wife makes less than me. And I make about $12,000 less than your top out.

Don't get me wrong, I support you guys fully in getting your concessions back, and whatever else you can get. You guys really took it in the shorts. But all the "I need two jobs to survive" and "I can't afford a dollar to invest in a 401K" drama, in my view, really is nothing but a distraction and hurts your credibility. You should get your money back because you deserve it. But to play it like you guys are starving because you make $32/hour topout hurts you in the long run IMO. Remember guys like me can make it on less working right next to you and there are tens of thousands making it on far less all around you.

Long story short, nobody likes a whiner. If it comes to the point you want and need the support of anybody outside the American Airlines TWU organization it would probably serve you well to tone down that kind of rhetoric.

OK, commence the insults and bashing.

You are so right!!!!! No bashing here!!!!! There is a different between what you need and want with your paycheck! Example-Who needs a big 4x4 in Dallas LOL

 

[strikeforce]

I generally make it a rule not to comment on these types of posts but here it goes.

Eagle doesn't have a pension so I contribute to the 401K. I am able to contribute 10%. I have a wife and kids, a mortgage, a car payment, utilities, etc, and live in a high cost of living "cornerstone" city. Oh yea, Eagle is my only job. I don't live on OT and my wife makes less than me. And I make about $12,000 less than your top out.

Don't get me wrong, I support you guys fully in getting your concessions back, and whatever else you can get. You guys really took it in the shorts. But all the "I need two jobs to survive" and "I can't afford a dollar to invest in a 401K" drama, in my view, really is nothing but a distraction and hurts your credibility. You should get your money back because you deserve it. But to play it like you guys are starving because you make $32/hour topout hurts you in the long run IMO. Remember guys like me can make it on less working right next to you and there are tens of thousands making it on far less all around you.

Long story short, nobody likes a whiner. If it comes to the point you want and need the support of anybody outside the American Airlines TWU organization it would probably serve you well to tone down that kind of rhetoric.

OK, commence the insults and bashing.

Just as pilots compare themselves to other pilots flying similar equipment, mechanics shouldn't be any different. Therefore, AMT's working on MAJOR airline jets should be compensated very similar, and REGIONAL airline AMT's should be similar. SWA, UPS, FED EX, and even JET BLUE make more than us at AA. On top of that, we loaned AA the concessionary deal in 2003, and expect some hefty payback, especially when it's been 8 years without a raise. When did you get your last raise? Did you give AE concessions in 2003? You mention that you are about 12,000 less in top out from AA....but where does your pay rank with other regional airline mechanics? I'm going to bet you're near the top?

 

[will fix for food]

Just as pilots compare themselves to other pilots flying similar equipment, mechanics shouldn't be any different. Therefore, AMT's working on MAJOR airline jets should be compensated very similar, and REGIONAL airline AMT's should be similar. SWA, UPS, FED EX, and even JET BLUE make more than us at AA. On top of that, we loaned AA the concessionary deal in 2003, and expect some hefty payback, especially when it's been 8 years without a raise. When did you get your last raise? Did you give AE concessions in 2003? You mention that you are about 12,000 less in top out from AA....but where does your pay rank with other regional airline mechanics? I'm going to bet you're near the top?

I see you missed my point entirely but I will answer your questions.

1. When did I get my last raise?

I got a .57 raise in 2006. I got a 1.12 raise total in the 2004 contract. Which means I have had 1.12 in raises since roughly 1998. We just signed a contract a year ago which provided no raises at all.

2. Did AE give concessions in 2003?

No. They didn't ask for any. Conventional wisdom at the time was we weren't making enough to give any back. At any rate I would have been way ahead of where I am right now if we had gotten the same percentage raise you guys got shortly before the concessions and then given back the same percentage you guys did. The fact is we didn't get the initial big raise nor were we asked to give back a percentage of that (nonexistent) raise.

3. Where does our pay rank with other regionals?

I'm not sure. I believe the top out is towards the high side of the other regionals but I know we aren't #1. The 12 year progression is a killer. I do know that we lose guys to other regionals on a regular basis. Chatauqua is a big drain and guys are leaving to go to contact MTX providers. That must say something.

A couple other points.

I think pattern bargaining is just about dead in todays landscape. Good luck relyng on that entirely.

I know that us not taking a paycut in 2003 pisses some of you guys off. We are making up for it now. You guys were at least offered something this time around. Not much...I understand that...but at least it was something. We were told "Go F**k yourselves. Here is your raise of 0%. Oh, and please don't forget to go f**k yourselves".

Your inferred air of superiority was noted in your capitalization. Looking down on other mechanics isn't going to get you much sympathy from them if and when the time comes that you will need their support.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I didn't realize that by listening to my union I was destroying the very fabric of unionism.

If AMP gets in at AA, am I not to listen to them also? When you tell me how AMP negotiators are going to do so much more then the TWU, do I trust you or not, if I'm not to listen to my union reps, why am paying union dues? Do I listen to Bob Owens? He's a TWU pres. And negotiator...............

And yet nobody has answered why listening to my union is union busting?

You truly are the teacher's pet duke. Your attempt at word play is childish at least and annoying to those who are intelligent. Everyone should LISTEN to their union BUT being able to LISTEN and COMPREHEND are two completely different things to you. The twu speaks and you listen then follow blindly THAT is why you cry like a spoiled brat because if YOU had listened to the twu you'd have earned that $6000.00 you continue to cry about YET you ignore the fact that at the cost of that "30 pieces of silver" YOU'D have sold out our craft and profession with even further damaging concessions. But hey! According to you the twu is know all/see all.

The answer to your simply question is if YOU listen and act as YOUR union says to act and that action destroys your craft and profession then THAT is union busting because it in effect weakens the unions postion to defend the membership.

GO AMP!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

will work,

"We were told "Go F**k yourselves. Here is your raise of 0%. Oh, and please don't forget to go f**k yourselves"."

Just curious since you say you are at AE and are crippled with the same undemocratic and unaccountable industrial union that we have the pleasure of enduring at AA. What did the twu say to AE AMTs when the company said what you quoted above? Did they roll out t-shirts with snappy slogans? Thanks for your input.

 

[strikeforce]

I see you missed my point entirely but I will answer your questions.

1. When did I get my last raise?

I got a .57 raise in 2006. I got a 1.12 raise total in the 2004 contract. Which means I have had 1.12 in raises since roughly 1998. We just signed a contract a year ago which provided no raises at all.

2. Did AE give concessions in 2003?

No. They didn't ask for any. Conventional wisdom at the time was we weren't making enough to give any back. At any rate I would have been way ahead of where I am right now if we had gotten the same percentage raise you guys got shortly before the concessions and then given back the same percentage you guys did. The fact is we didn't get the initial big raise nor were we asked to give back a percentage of that (nonexistent) raise.

3. Where does our pay rank with other regionals?

I'm not sure. I believe the top out is towards the high side of the other regionals but I know we aren't #1. The 12 year progression is a killer. I do know that we lose guys to other regionals on a regular basis. Chatauqua is a big drain and guys are leaving to go to contact MTX providers. That must say something.

A couple other points.

I think pattern bargaining is just about dead in todays landscape. Good luck relyng on that entirely.

I know that us not taking a paycut in 2003 pisses some of you guys off. We are making up for it now. You guys were at least offered something this time around. Not much...I understand that...but at least it was something. We were told "Go F**k yourselves. Here is your raise of 0%. Oh, and please don't forget to go f**k yourselves".

Your inferred air of superiority was noted in your capitalization. Looking down on other mechanics isn't going to get you much sympathy from them if and when the time comes that you will need their support.

I don't look down on any of my peers. We're all in the same TWU boat that's sinking. The entire industry is in chaos, and people are scrambling for answers. All mechanics at ALL airlines took a beating this past decade. The forum has turned bitter because mechanics are tired of getting F*cked by AA and our illustrious union that pisses away our money to politicians that give nothing back. Everybody thought Chicken Little had Obama on our side...well you see how much Obama has helped us as much as helping the public workers in Wisconsin. Loves our money, but can give a f*ck about the people. That's the American way. People that give to COPE are fools!

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I generally make it a rule not to comment on these types of posts but here it goes.

Eagle doesn't have a pension so I contribute to the 401K. I am able to contribute 10%. I have a wife and kids, a mortgage, a car payment, utilities, etc, and live in a high cost of living "cornerstone" city. Oh yea, Eagle is my only job. I don't live on OT and my wife makes less than me. And I make about $12,000 less than your top out.

Don't get me wrong, I support you guys fully in getting your concessions back, and whatever else you can get. You guys really took it in the shorts. But all the "I need two jobs to survive" and "I can't afford a dollar to invest in a 401K" drama, in my view, really is nothing but a distraction and hurts your credibility. You should get your money back because you deserve it. But to play it like you guys are starving because you make $32/hour topout hurts you in the long run IMO. Remember guys like me can make it on less working right next to you and there are tens of thousands making it on far less all around you.

Long story short, nobody likes a whiner. If it comes to the point you want and need the support of anybody outside the American Airlines TWU organization it would probably serve you well to tone down that kind of rhetoric.

OK, commence the insults and bashing.

No need to bash you.
But i used to work 2 jobs did it for ten years and didnt #### about it. Maxed out my 401K every year but after we got our raises and i was able to work one job i swore i wouldnt work two jobs again. For now the wife stays home and watches my 3 year old twins i wont put them in daycare. A house and taxes in NY can not be had with AA pay not after the concessions anyway. You are either living in tulsa or some shady section of the Bronx. I'm not impressed by you living on 50K a year plus whatever your wife makes. Everyones situation is different but supplementing fuel and low ticket prices among a slew of bad management decisions has come to an end. If you guys at Eagle took it in the shorts then you should have shot down your T/A like we did. its time for some monetary relief. Sure there are tens of thousands making it on far less but i bet they dont live in New York.

 

[TWU informer]

And so what exaclty did the TWU tell us in 2003?
If everyone is going to place blame on those that listened to the Union then we should review the facts.

TWU said,
If restructuring failed we would lose our defined pension plan.

I beleive this to have been true.

TWU said,
If restructuring failed the company vermont plan would be implemented and jobs would be lost.

I believe this to be true.

TWU said,
After SERP hidden pension for management was revealed that the only way to have a legitimate agreement is to re-vote.

I believe this to be true, but the TWU failed to follow through. And I also believe it is 100% false that the TWU was not given documentation regarding the SERP. The problem is the stooges were too stupid to see it when presented.

TWU said,
WE acquired an early opener provision and Carty was removed.

I believe this to be true, but the TWU failed to follow through.

My point is this to all of you hounding on the guy that listens to and follows the TWU.
We have had no idea what was discussed in the past negotiations. Secret negotiations leaves everyone in a position to listen to those have been at the table rather they are correct or not, you have no other source to go by.

Example we currently have no idea WHY there is not another negotiation session scheduled.

My belief is that the mediator was willing to schedule further negotiations so long as progress was being.
Once Bob and the boys presented their compensation demands, not only was progress stopped, but we reverted all the way back to the beginning of negotiations.

If you are not going to listen and trust those in SECRET NEGOTIATIONS then WHO are you going to listen to and trust?

Hell I know the TWU lies, but who the hell are you suppose to believe and trust? Management? Organizers of a threatening union that have not been in ONE SINGLE negotiation session? WHO

PLease answer who each of you think we should be trusting here. Even Bob Owens' admits he is not now nor has been telling us everything.

The reason many have signed AMP cards now or AMFA cards in the past is because we cannot trust the TWU and their policies.
But I dont understand how anyone can offer a valid or at least current replacement to those that still listen and follow.

Serves no purpose to call the guy names for listening to his union. You only hope we can listen to a union that replaces the TWU but that is not a gurantee position to take either.

 

[Bob Owens]

I generally make it a rule not to comment on these types of posts but here it goes.

Eagle doesn't have a pension so I contribute to the 401K. I am able to contribute 10%. I have a wife and kids, a mortgage, a car payment, utilities, etc, and live in a high cost of living "cornerstone" city. Oh yea, Eagle is my only job. I don't live on OT and my wife makes less than me. And I make about $12,000 less than your top out.

Don't get me wrong, I support you guys fully in getting your concessions back, and whatever else you can get. You guys really took it in the shorts. But all the "I need two jobs to survive" and "I can't afford a dollar to invest in a 401K" drama, in my view, really is nothing but a distraction and hurts your credibility. You should get your money back because you deserve it. But to play it like you guys are starving because you make $32/hour topout hurts you in the long run IMO. Remember guys like me can make it on less working right next to you and there are tens of thousands making it on far less all around you.

Long story short, nobody likes a whiner. If it comes to the point you want and need the support of anybody outside the American Airlines TWU organization it would probably serve you well to tone down that kind of rhetoric.

OK, commence the insults and bashing.

I would think that with the responsibility of what we do for a living you would also consider us worthy of a wage that would allow us to move out from under Mommy and Daddys roof and live comfortably. If you live in New York and work for Eagle you live with Mommy and Daddy, unless you landed a spouse with a really good job. Eagle was never considered a career, it was considered a step towards a career. People who hired on to Eagle looked at it as OJT for a couple of years to get the experience they need to get to the majors. Willing to work for less, like an Internship, with the payoff being a job at the majors. There may be areas in the country where someone can live pretty well on what we make but there arent too many areas where one can live good on what Eagle pays. Well if the payoff of a job at the majors is pretty much what used to be considered Eagle type wages then whats the point? What I'm saying is that our wage has declined to the point where its less than what an Eagle wage was and your wage has declined to the point of a what someone with little to no skills with little to no responsiblity would expect to earn. I beleieve you guys earn less than a Fleet service clerk at SWA. You dont think thats a little out of whack?

 

[will fix for food]

will work,

"We were told "Go F**k yourselves. Here is your raise of 0%. Oh, and please don't forget to go f**k yourselves"."

Just curious since you say you are at AE and are crippled with the same undemocratic and unaccountable industrial union that we have the pleasure of enduring at AA. What did the twu say to AE AMTs when the company said what you quoted above? Did they roll out t-shirts with snappy slogans? Thanks for your input.

Actually, I took some liberties there. They weren't quite that blunt I imagine. However, the outcome was the same.

Nothing really dramatic happened. The company slid that across the table. The negotiating committee sent it out for a vote. And we passed it. Amazingly..