And so it begins..... A350 deliveries pushed back.

nycbusdriver

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In today's Jetwire:
 
If you love that new plane smell, we have hundreds of aircraft on order, including the Airbus A350 XWB, set to join our fleet in 2017. This morning, we announced an agreement with Airbus to defer two of those A350 XWB deliveries to 2020. Our original plan was to take delivery of six A350 XWBs in 2017, but now we’ll instead receive four of them next year to better match the pace of our widebody deliveries and retirements with international flight schedules. We’ll still be the leaders as the first U.S. carrier to take delivery of the A350 XWB in 2017. In addition, we still have 29 more Boeing 787s coming, and a large number of Boeing 737s and Airbus A320-family aircraft to modernize our narrowbody fleet.
 
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nycbusdriver

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So then.  We are repeatedly told that the EMB190 fleet of 20 aircraft is too small to be effective and that we need to bet many ore, or dump the fleet entirely.
 
Yet only four A350s is just the "way to go" for three years.  
 
Probably the ONLY reason the order wan't entirely cancelled is that the process of procurement and assembly has already started on the first four.  They will be sold before they ever reach AA property, IMHO.
 
Any bets on whose livery will be on those 2017 deliveries?
 

700UW

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From another web page: 2016 Fleet Plan
 
 
* MAINLINE DELIVERIES (+55) *

- 25
Airbus A321: +6 Q1, +7 Q2, +6 Q3, +6 Q3
- 20 Boeing 737-800: +5 Q1, +5 Q2, +5 Q3, +5 Q4
- 2
Boeing 777
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6613106/#-300ER: +2 Q1
- 4 Boeing 787-8: +2 Q1, +2 Q2
- 4 Boeing 787-9: +1 Q3, +3 Q4

* MAINLINE RETIREMENTS (-92) *

- 4
Airbus A320: -4 Q1
- 13 Boeing 757-200: -9 Q1, -1 Q2, -1 Q3, -2 Q4
- 14
Boeing 767-300ER: -5 Q1, -5 Q3, -4 Q4
- 61 MD-80: -4 Q1, -6 Q2, -37 Q3, -14 Q4

*
MAINLINE FLEET COUNT AT YE2015 (-37) *

- 319 = 125
- 320 = 51 (-4)
- 321 = 199 (+25)
- 332 = 15
- 333 = 9
- 738 = 284 (+28)
- 752 = 51 (-13)
- 763 = 31 (-14)
- 772 = 47
- 77W = 20 (+2)
- 788 = 17 (+4)
- 789 = 4 (+4)
- E90 = 20
- S80 = 36 (-61)
- Total = 909 (-37)


* REGIONAL DELIVERIES (+49) *

- 7 CRJ-700: +6 Q2, +1 Q3
- 18 CRJ-900: +6 Q1, +9 Q2, +3 Q3
- 24 E-175: +4 Q1, +8 Q2, +6 Q3, +6 Q4

* REGIONAL RETIREMENTS (-29) *

- 17 CRJ-200: -3 Q1, -1 Q2, -1 Q3, -12 Q4
- 12 ERJ-140: -2 Q2, -10 Q3

* REGIONAL FLEET COUNT AT YE2015 (+20) *

- CR2 = 111 (-17)
-
CR7 = 68 (+7)
- CR9 = 118 (+18)
- DH1 = 26
- DH3 = 11
- E70 = 20
- E75 = 133 (+24)
- ERD = 2 (-12)
- ER4 = 118
- Total = 607 (+20)

Some highlights:

* The mainline fleet continues to shrink. Capacity shouldn't be affected, as the 321 and 738 that are being delivered have 41 and 20 seats more than the S80 that are being retired. However, with less mainline
aircraft, AA will be able to have less large RJ.

* Regarding widebody changes, during 2016 AA will take delivery of 10 widebody aircraft and will retire 14 763, so there will be a net loss of 4 aircraft. This shouldn't affect international flying, as AA is currently using some 763s for
domestic flights.

* Last year AA retired 5 more 752 and 4 more 763 than what was originally planned in the 2015 Fleet Plan, with one more 788 delivery (http://www.
airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6298390/).

* The S80 will see a drastic decrease, with only 35 aircraft at the end of the year. During Q3 alone (after the summer), AA will retire 37 aircraft, which is a huge number for a quarter alone.

=

 
 
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nycbusdriver

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It's amazing how Delta and United seem to have little difficulty finding markets for their widebody fleets (which are much larger than American's).  But the Parker bunch wring their hands over the fact that they can't find places to put all the widebody airplanes being delivered.
 
Disclaimer: "I have no dog in this fight," so it's not sour grapes.  I will be retired before any A350 shows up, and very likely before there is an integrated seniority list for pilots.  It's just been a bit frustrating to have always worked for the also-ran.  Or, to be more specific, to be stuck with the "Also-ran Management."
 

topDawg

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nycbusdriver said:
So then.  We are repeatedly told that the EMB190 fleet of 20 aircraft is too small to be effective and that we need to bet many ore, or dump the fleet entirely.
 
Yet only four A350s is just the "way to go" for three years.  
 
Probably the ONLY reason the order wan't entirely cancelled is that the process of procurement and assembly has already started on the first four.  They will be sold before they ever reach AA property, IMHO.
 
Any bets on whose livery will be on those 2017 deliveries?
20 narrow bodies are to few. 50-60+ is normally the target. 
 
Also I don't get where you get that AA isn't taking any 350s after 2017 till 2020? they only deferred 2 planes.
 
and finally, If they wanted to cancel the others (or the order completely) they are still able to do so. Not sure why you are upset about a deferral of two airplanes. AA is going to have a lot of 777-200ERs and A330-300s to replace in a few years and will need the 350s to do so. 
 
nycbusdriver said:
It's amazing how Delta and United seem to have little difficulty finding markets for their widebody fleets (which are much larger than American's).  But the Parker bunch wring their hands over the fact that they can't find places to put all the widebody airplanes being delivered.
 
Disclaimer: "I have no dog in this fight," so it's not sour grapes.  I will be retired before any A350 shows up, and very likely before there is an integrated seniority list for pilots.  It's just been a bit frustrating to have always worked for the also-ran.  Or, to be more specific, to be stuck with the "Also-ran Management."
DL and AA's widebody fleet are about the same size, and DL's is getting much smaller. 
 
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Beancounter

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Any bets on which base gets the A350, LAX or DFW?
 
.... and no, I'm not reading A350 manuals already.  I know I'll be a ways off from getting an FO spot on one, but I can dream.  Still learning the A320s idiosyncrasies.  
 
Bean
 

700UW

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Depends if their is a fence.

More than likely PHL as they are slated to replace the A333s eventually.
 

Beancounter

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700UW said:
Depends if their is a fence.

More than likely PHL as they are slated to replace the A333s eventually.
First I've heard of PHL getting them, but that makes sense if they're replacing A330s.  I expect to be fenced off the 777 and 787 for a while, but I'd give the chance of being fenced off the A350 about a .0000001 percent chance:)  I could be wrong, but I think if there's a fence for them, they could still put them in DFW or LAX, but with ex US crews.
 
Bean
 

1AA

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Maybe if we are lucky the company will cancel all A350 orders. The last thing we need is another fleet type in the inventory. All these fleet types and sub fleets is a maintenance dept nightmare. Crew scheduling must be a challenge when flights need to be reassigned.
 
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nycbusdriver

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1AA said:
Maybe if we are lucky the company will cancel all A350 orders. The last thing we need is another fleet type in the inventory. All these fleet types and sub fleets is a maintenance dept nightmare. Crew scheduling must be a challenge when flights need to be reassigned.
 
 
I would bet that not taking on the A350 fleet is certainly being discussed.  They can probably take delivery and immediately sell them (at a profit) to another airline or leasing company before they even fly out of the factory airport.  About the only thing I can think of that would keep that scenario from happening is that Parker wants the "distinction" of AA being the U.S. launch customer for the A350.  Not that anyone cares.
 
They seem to have enough Boeing widebody deliveries in the pipeline to cover their meager international program.  They do moan that they can't find places to fly the widebodies being delivered.
 

FWAAA

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The numbers I've seen show the A350-900 as having the same range as a 777-200ER, and being ~15% more fuel efficient. Don't know if that's unique enough to justify a fleet of fewer than two dozen when the 787-9 and 787-10 (AA hasn't ordered any -10s yet) have longer range than the 772/A350 and are at least 15% more fuel efficient than the 772 on a seat-mile basis.

The A350 made a lot of sense in 2005 when Airbus forgave some loans in exchange for the merged US-HP placing orders for the predecessor to the A350, but it may not make as much sense now.
 

A320 Driver

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We get 4 A350s in 2017, 10 more in 2018, 6 in 2019 and 2 in 2020. Probably be deployed to DFW and LAX to fly Westbound. They are not suitable replacements for A330. Too much capacity and range to just run them to Europe.
 

dash8roa

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Oct 25, 2003
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Don't know how much of a penalty would come from cancelling the A350,but with AA having ordered a boat load of A321's, it might be the wise course for Airbus to let AA walk away from these orders and resell them at a higher cost. The 2005 cost must have been much lower than current sale prices.  Having the 777's and 787's is all that is needed for the international routes.
I was hoping for some eastern European routes such as Prague,  Budapest, Krakow, etc.  
 

FWAAA

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A320 Driver said:
We get 4 A350s in 2017, 10 more in 2018, 6 in 2019 and 2 in 2020. Probably be deployed to DFW and LAX to fly Westbound. They are not suitable replacements for A330. Too much capacity and range to just run them to Europe.
Sure, the A350s have lots more range than they need to fly to Europe, but all new widebody planes feature "excessive" range by that standard. The current A333 model features 50% more range than the first A333s. As to capacity, the A350-900 looks exactly like an A333 in passenger capacity, and US has been flying those to Europe since they arrived on the property.

Look at the A380s and 77Ws flown on short flights across the Atlantic. From a range standpoint, they're definitely overkill, but they're flown on high-capacity routes (often to congested/slot restricted airports).

If the A350 isn't a suitable replacement for the A333 for the typical 3,500nm flight to Europe with 300 seats, then what plane is the suitable replacement?