Another YES vote needed. This time to dump the TWU

[Vortilon]

While Videtich stuffs his puss with chicken fried steak, we need to decide whether it will be Teamsters or AMFA that will release us from the Gulag. We need everyone on the same page. Ask yourself these questions:

• Who pays the most? UPS
• Who provides better name recognition and power? UPS
• Which union has the best opportunity to decertify the TWU? UPS
• Which union provides democracy to remove officers? AMFA

Remember this as well: Auto Shop and Facilities will not support AMFA. They will support Teamsters because they fear AMTs will sell Facilities down the drain. In a pursuit to get AMFA, know that roughly 2000 Title II will not sign cards. Better shot with getting them to sign Teamster cards.

Don't get clouded in a debate that splits the vote. This is what TWU wants. AMFA reps should get behind Teamsters, if for anything, to dump the TWU. If Teamsters cannot deliver, then Teamster backers should lay down and support AMFA takeover. This is logical. If we divide the house, TWU gets the last laugh. If we dump TWU, at least we send our message to TWU thanks for nothing.

We did not get in this to field to be broke. TWU has screwed the rest of the industry by using lemmings from 514 to scare people. Remember, Phat Don will tell you he did not have a vote. If we cannot agree on this, we are doomed.

We shamed the industry today. Watch the pilots and flight attendants and learn something.

Bless your heart, you don't have a clue. Once AA gets done gutting Tulsa and all those TWU supporting yes voters - along with the title 2 TWU supporting yes voters systemwide - AMFA will be a shoe-in.

 

[1AA]

The Auto Shop people at TULE looked at me like a martian when I offered them IBT Cards yesterday at lunch time .

You should have offered them a job application at the local car dealer. They will need it soon.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Teamsters Can Negotiate Changes to Our New Contract ​

There’s been a lot of talk about the vote yesterday on the new contract. And one thing that a lot A/A mechanics and related are saying is how glad they are that the Teamsters are here to help us organize.​

The Teamsters have already expressed their commitment to using the Section 6 provision of the Railway Labor Act to reopen the existing contract.​

That means the recently passed agreement under TWU can be reopened once the Teamsters become our bargaining representative.
Yesterday’s vote is yet another strong reason to become Teamsters.
American Airlines is required by law to open up the contract for a newly-certified union to negotiate changes. And the Teamsters have pledged to enforce that right if we choose the Teamsters to represent us at A/A.
Click here to read more about what a new union at A/A can do.
With the Teamsters, We Can Win at American Airlines!
For more information, call the campaign hotline at 877-589-4951 or visit www.teamster.org/aamx
<img height="1" width="1" />

What a load of feces.

The teamsters are magically going to open the contract IF they get certified at AA?

So, the mirror image of the industrial, undemocratic, unaccountable twu gets certified at AA and "poof" the teamsters are going to "fight like Hell"?

Voting the teamsters in at AA is like changing your left sock to your right foot and your right sock to your left foot. You changed but you still stink.

Let's say that this "law" actually is true wouldn't you want a democratic, craft union negotiating for you? Wouldn't you want to be present when negotiations are taking place?

With the teamsters you'd have a pilot who was appointed to the head of their airline division "fighting like Hell" for you.

 

[riceweevil]

What a load of feces.

The teamsters are magically going to open the contract IF they get certified at AA?

So, the mirror image of the industrial, undemocratic, unaccountable twu gets certified at AA and "poof" the teamsters are going to "fight like Hell"?

Voting the teamsters in at AA is like changing your left sock to your right foot and your right sock to your left foot. You changed but you still stink.

Let's say that this "law" actually is true wouldn't you want a democratic, craft union negotiating for you? Wouldn't you want to be present when negotiations are taking place?

With the teamsters you'd have a pilot who was appointed to the head of their airline division "fighting like Hell" for you.

Unfortunately, no amount of explanations of the IBT will overcome this type of ignorance. Just keep on thinking TWU or amfa and be stuck with the 6 year agreement. I'll take my chances with the IBT.

 

[700UW]

They are lying to you and IBT has one of the highest outsourcing rates for maintenance in the industry.

The case stated has nothing to do with changing unions.

 

[Buck]

Unfortunately, no amount of explanations of the IBT will overcome this type of ignorance. Just keep on thinking TWU or amfa and be stuck with the 6 year agreement. I'll take my chances with the IBT.

All the Teamsters need to do is have a meeting that the mechanics will go to, ( maybe on a weekend ) and ensure the existing membership what the facts are.

 

[xUT]

All the Teamsters need to do is have a meeting that the mechanics will go to, ( maybe on a weekend ) and ensure the existing membership what the facts are.

Now 'THAT's' funny...LOL
B) xUT

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Unfortunately, no amount of explanations of the IBT will overcome this type of ignorance. Just keep on thinking TWU or amfa and be stuck with the 6 year agreement. I'll take my chances with the IBT.

As others have already stated, simply electing a new union does not entitle the affected membership to a new contract opener.

While any new union AMFA, IAM, ibt, could "ask" the company to return to section 6 negotiations prior to the current agreements amendable date, the company is not legaly bound to do so, they could, and in all likelyhood would simply say "NO".

Nevermind the fact that its now obvious that the ibt is merely running an interference campaign FOR the TWU.

Is there an AA mechanic based organizing committee?

Has the TWU said A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G negative about the ibt raid?

Has the ibt said A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G negative about the TWU?

Has the ibt called for a debate between the ibt and the TWU? (they did at UAL & Horizon vs AMFA)

The ibt is playing spoiler plain and simple.....they could collect more than enough cards....and without a mechanic based organizing committee simply tell you all...."sorry, we never got enough cards to file"

 

[riceweevil]

As others have already stated, simply electing a new union does not entitle the affected membership to a new contract opener.

While any new union AMFA, IAM, ibt, could "ask" the company to return to section 6 negotiations prior to the current agreements amendable date, the company is not legaly bound to do so, they could, and in all likelyhood would simply say "NO".

Nevermind the fact that its now obvious that the ibt is merely running an interference campaign FOR the TWU.

Is there an AA mechanic based organizing committee?

Has the TWU said A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G negative about the ibt raid?

Has the ibt said A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G negative about the TWU?

Has the ibt called for a debate between the ibt and the TWU? (they did at UAL & Horizon vs AMFA)

The ibt is playing spoiler plain and simple.....they could collect more than enough cards....and without a mechanic based organizing committee simply tell you all...."sorry, we never got enough cards to file"

If amfa was strong enough with its sell to the AMT's and related at AA it would not have to even worry about what the IBT is doing.
If amfa is good enough to draw 50% +1 good cards then they can file for an election.
The IBT is not spoiling anything that a strong amfa could not overcome.
IBT supporters are trying to go forward and resolve this POS LBO 2.0 and not look back to 2003.
If amfa supporters really want to get rid of the TWU then they should SIGN and collect IBT cards and make it a FAST-DONE DEAL!
If the IBT is as bad as you say it is then you should be succesful within 36 months to remove the IBT from AA

The 64K question is: Do you really want the TWU OUT AT AA?????????????
SIGN an IBT card today and get it done FAST !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tex-Mech]

While Videtich stuffs his puss with chicken fried steak, we need to decide whether it will be Teamsters or AMFA that will release us from the Gulag. We need everyone on the same page. Ask yourself these questions:

• Who pays the most? UPS
• Who provides better name recognition and power? UPS
• Which union has the best opportunity to decertify the TWU? UPS
• Which union provides democracy to remove officers? AMFA

Remember this as well: Auto Shop and Facilities will not support AMFA. They will support Teamsters because they fear AMTs will sell Facilities down the drain. In a pursuit to get AMFA, know that roughly 2000 Title II will not sign cards. Better shot with getting them to sign Teamster cards.

Don't get clouded in a debate that splits the vote. This is what TWU wants. AMFA reps should get behind Teamsters, if for anything, to dump the TWU. If Teamsters cannot deliver, then Teamster backers should lay down and support AMFA takeover. This is logical. If we divide the house, TWU gets the last laugh. If we dump TWU, at least we send our message to TWU thanks for nothing.

We did not get in this to field to be broke. TWU has screwed the rest of the industry by using lemmings from 514 to scare people. Remember, Phat Don will tell you he did not have a vote. If we cannot agree on this, we are doomed.

We shamed the industry today. Watch the pilots and flight attendants and learn something.

No thanks JR

 

[DNTULSA]

If amfa was strong enough with its sell to the AMT's and related at AA it would not have to even worry about what the IBT is doing.
If amfa is good enough to draw 50% +1 good cards then they can file for an election.
The IBT is not spoiling anything that a strong amfa could not overcome.
IBT supporters are trying to go forward and resolve this POS LBO 2.0 and not look back to 2003.
If amfa supporters really want to get rid of the TWU then they should SIGN and collect IBT cards and make it a FAST-DONE DEAL!
If the IBT is as bad as you say it is then you should be succesful within 36 months to remove the IBT from AA

The 64K question is: Do you really want the TWU OUT AT AA?????????????
SIGN an IBT card today and get it done FAST !!!!!!!!!!

Ain't he a pistol?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Thats a blatant lie, changing unions doesnt trigger Section 6 negotiations. Section 6 negotiations only take place 60 days prior to the amendable date.

Lies spread by the IBT.

Newly certified means when a group who is non-union elects union representation.

Never thought it would happen, but your truthful post got you a +3 on this board.

 

[DNTULSA]

Unfortunately, no amount of explanations of the IBT will overcome this type of ignorance. Just keep on thinking TWU or amfa and be stuck with the 6 year agreement. I'll take my chances with the IBT.

Why not?

you voted yes on the contract didn't you?

Are you sure your'e not lizard lips?

 

[riceweevil]

The law on this issue is clear. Under the Railway
Labor Act, after winning an election, a newly-certified
union such as the IBT can serve a Section 6 opener
and the Carrier is obligated to negotiate over the
terms of a new agreement. The starting point for such
negotiations is the existing rates of pay, rules and
working conditions of employees established by their
existing agreement. Further, a carrier may not refuse
to negotiate with a newly-certified union on the basis
that the employees it represents are already covered
by a collective bargaining agreement that was negotiated
by a previous union regardless of when the existing
agreement becomes amendable.



In Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) v. USAir, Inc.,
24 F.3d 1432 (D.C. Cir. 1995), the United States Court of
Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit described
a carrier&rsquo;s duty to bargain after a change in representation.
It did so in addressing AFA&rsquo;s effort to apply its
collective bargaining agreement with USAir to the
much smaller flight attendant work group employed
by Trump Shuttle and previously represented by TWU
following USAir&rsquo;s assumption of managerial control of
the Shuttle. The Court of Appeals held that the status
quo applicable to the Shuttle employees (i.e., their existing
rates of pay, rules and working conditions) was
set by their existing collective bargaining agreement
negotiated by the TWU and that the status quo prevailed
until modified by an agreement between AFA
and the carrier.



To be clear, the Court of Appeals explained that a carrier
&ldquo;cannot refuse to bargain over new terms based
on a claim that bargaining has been settled under the
pre-existing contract.&rdquo; The Court continued, &ldquo;Instead,
we hold that a newly-certified union in a situation such
as this one has full bargaining rights with respect to
covered employees without regard to whether the employees
previously have been covered by a collective
bargaining agreement.&rdquo; The decision of the Court of
Appeals for the District of Columbia was bolstered by
its rejection of the notion that USAir or AFA were
bound by the collective bargaining agreement negotiated
by the TWU for the flight attendants employed by
the Trump Shuttle. The Court rejected that notion out
of hand, reasoning that &ldquo;it is also clear that neither
USAir nor AFA is contractually bound by the Eastern-
TWU agreement, for these parties have not assented
to any of the terms of that agreement.&rdquo; Additionally,
&ldquo;The application of one union&rsquo;s collective bargaining
agreement to another union&rsquo;s members would create a
situation where those members would have, in effect,
two representatives. But, one could no more have two
exclusive representatives than &ndash; to use the old baseball
expression, &ndash; &lsquo;two men on second base.&rsquo;&rdquo;



Therefore, while the IBT would inherit the existing
TWU/American contract as the status quo if the
American Mechanics and Related choose the IBT as
their representative, American is obliged to agree to
commence negotiations over intended changes in the
contract within 30 days of receiving notice of such
changes pursuant to Section 6 of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. &sect;
156, even though a later amendable date appears in
the existing contract.
What A New Union Can Do
Is American Airlines Required to Bargain with a New Union
Over Changes to the Existing Mechanics&rsquo; Contract? Yes!
For more

 

[DNTULSA]

Gosh,

That also means that AA would have to negotiate with AMFA if they were voted in, doesn't it?