AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

PHL Domicile Update: September 18, 2012: PHL Reps said, "Grievance Chairman Dave Ciabattoni provided an eye-opening review of the pertinent sections of both East and West contracts to include: Scope; Contingent Acquisition Rights (CARs); Code Share; relevant sections of LOA 84, LOA 93, Transitions Agreement; and Change of Control. Any and all of these may play a role in a merger going forward, and the education and the chance to ask questions were very helpful to the BPR. Both contracts contain specific protections for our pilots that are the result of years of bargaining history, and Chairman Ciabattoni offered us several examples of how to best utilize these protections in the coming months should the merger proceed."

All he did was make a case (or tried to) for more litigation and arbitration to get the COC provisions. Rowland Wilder had already explained multiple times that, even if we did win, the COC would be immediately trumped by a JCBA. More money down the drain for absolutly nothing.

Contingent Acquisition Rights (CARs): During the BPR's last meeting in Grievance Committee Chairman Dave Ciabbatoni's scope presentation he indicated regarding Contingent Acquisition Rights (CARs), which would require the company to pay us $250mil in a COC transaction, actually expired on June 30, 2012. His comment was we could probably get a good lawyer to win that for us.

I sat there and listened to him...that was the most absurd thing I ever heard him say. We should hire more lawyers and go to court to fight for a clause in our contract that EXPIRED over three months ago. Brilliant.

Driver...

 

[N924PS]

As a hearty proponent of the It's ALL about MEEE philosophy; what was YOURS? 😉

I was senior on the AAA list in 2005 and stayed within 3% on the Nicolau Award....

 

[nic4us]

Anyone.....that's absolutley A N Y O N E who has a different opinion than your fuked up idea is called a scab by you, nic! No one else on this board is as adamant as you about name calling.

Your greed shows with every post that you make!

breeze

Not true...

For instance, Move2 and Luvn both have different opinions than myself, yet I have never called either a name.

But I get your point, and calling a group or individuals scabs, who intentionally stripped the West of union representation in order to forward and agenda whereby they also deprive the West of their jobs and/or any contract improvements, while working for less and maliciously attacking any West interest, might make me a jerk.

But, it does not make me a GREEDY jerk.


PS. My "fuked" up opinion is also held by Parker, Lakefield, Wake, Bybee, Tashima, Graber, jury of your peers, Nicolau and the arbitrators of virtually every other airline seniority integration in the last 40 years.

Your opinion is held by Seeham, usapa and 2500 east scabs out to steal my job. ,,, and I don't really think Seeham believes it!

 

[luvn737s]

Contingent Acquisition Rights (CARs): During the BPR's last meeting in Grievance Committee Chairman Dave Ciabbatoni's scope presentation he indicated regarding Contingent Acquisition Rights (CARs), which would require the company to pay us $250mil in a COC transaction, actually expired on June 30, 2012. His comment was we could probably get a good lawyer to win that for us.

What kind of lawyer did USAPA waste $2 million+ on? How does Ciabatta Dave know anything about winning in court, since that hasn't happened with USAPA yet?

 

[A320 Driver]

What kind of lawyer did USAPA waste $2 million+ on? How does Ciabatta Dave know anything about winning in court, since that hasn't happened with USAPA yet?

Good question. I was a little surprised that they gave him the floor to spout his absurdities, but I probably shouldn't be.

Driver...

 

[Phoenix]

I don't pretend to know, nor care about your demeanor or how you will vote on any matter. What I can say this certainty is you are uninformed, angry, and have not a clue about what just occurred over the last two weeks. Are you serious about the "entire" MEC voting away our pensions? And your use of the word "power" is telling. Yet another of Cleary's grasshoppers.

There is no political future or power to be had by the pilots of US Airways. I want to throw the bums in CLT out because (apparently like you) they are acting on emotion and past events in choosing a path forward, one that absolutely includes no plan B and only a screaming demand for "more, more, and more."

Greeter

More demagoguing and assessments of demeanor.... Do you not know what those words mean? Consult an expert...

Speaking of "experts", there seems to be a lot of talk lately about our "experts", coupled with demagoguing against people perceived to be outside the bounds of their expert advice. Lets think back about our expert advisors…. The experts, for as long as I can remember, have always painted an unfavorable doom if we didn't take their advice. Oddly though, as far as I recall their advice has always advocated that we accept the company's FIRST offer to work more days, for less money, with fewer pilots. And we have always followed their advice!!

Our advisors have always whispered echoes of "more, more, more… give the company more, more, more"… and here we are with less, less, less... but at least we have a job that is enjoyable, with great people to work along side.

Be that as it may, no credit or blame goes to our advisors… neither to individual pilots.. we voted collectively, whenever we could. And all the credit or blame goes to us, hey "We are ALPA." Don't' ya know it!

Vote however you want to. You might be the one necessary vote that saves my job!! I mean, just think if we vote down a management offer, like the FAs did. We could cause global warming and world hunger in one day. And the APA pilots… oh my, they voted "no" a few times now in bankruptcy.. they must be a beast coming up out of the sea.

Don't fret, the history of this pilot group seems to be to lean over a chair and whimper yes, yes, yes. You will be just fine. It will all work out.

 

[Phoenix]

We had our chance...the BPR in all it's wisdom told you to vote NO against every advisor's council.

Driver...

Our advisors have always recommended we accept more concessions, and the company has always come to us with more opportunities for more concessions. We have always been good for it.

Don't worry, nothing has changed. They will be back soon, and consider it a bonus... there will be a much greater necessity to rush to accept the next concessions.

 

[luvn737s]

So, tell us Phoenix, how much money have the "all-knowing opposition" put in the pockets of the pilots? We know how much they've lined their own pockets with.

Money talks- hubris, well, it gives you LOA93.

 

[Phoenix]

So, tell us Phoenix, how much money have the "all-knowing opposition" put in the pockets of the pilots? We know how much they've lined their own pockets with.

Money talks- hubris, well, it gives you LOA93.

Are you drunk? Its a little early yet. LOA 93 was a concession our advisors recommended during bankruptcy. It is a concession, just like all the others, that we agreed to. Hubris had nothing to do with it. Voting "no", by definition, isn't how you get more concessions.

 

[fifidriver]

Anyone.....that's absolutley A N Y O N E who has a different opinion than your fuked up idea is called a scab by you, nic! No one else on this board is as adamant as you about name calling.

Your greed shows with every post that you make!

breeze

I probably have to side with Nic on this one. I see no evidence of any abnormally elevated level of greed. We all come to work for the paycheck and I don't expect too many would turn down a raise. Oh... wait... 2500 Easties willingly turned down a pay raise with the sole intention of subverting the result of very expensive, lengthy, neutral, "final and arbitration" in order to attempt to step in front of someone's rightfully awarded position. What would you call people who would do such a thing? Although the term "Scab" has traditionally been reserved for someone who crosses a picket line, it also refers to someone who is willing to work for lesser contract terms. Maybe we could look for a label that might be arguably less offensive. The Brits have a term that they use for such people, "Blacklegs". Maybe Nic wouldn't mind changing his verbiage for the more sensitive, PC, members of our little exchange.

 

[nevergiveup]

I probably have to side with Nic on this one. I see no evidence of any abnormally elevated level of greed. We all come to work for the paycheck and I don't expect too many would turn down a raise. Oh... wait... 2500 Easties willingly turned down a pay raise with the sole intention of subverting the result of very expensive, lengthy, neutral, "final and arbitration" in order to attempt to step in front of someone's rightfully awarded position. What would you call people who would do such a thing? Although the term "Scab" has traditionally been reserved for someone who crosses a picket line, it also refers to someone who is willing to work for lesser contract terms. Maybe we could look for a label that might be arguably less offensive. The Brits have a term that they use for such people, "Blacklegs". Maybe Nic wouldn't mind changing his verbiage for the more sensitive, PC, members of our little exchange.

When was that vote?

 

[USA320Pilot]

I'm open for debate and education.

For those who support the BPRs MOU actions can you tell me where my comments are wrong in regard to LPPs, CARs, LOA 96 Minimum Block Hours/Hulls, and the CoC?

Could we be worse off in the future by losing the MOUs Scope protections?

In addition, how many times have US Airways' pilots benefited from the union leader's decision(s) to act against the advice of the advisers?

In my opinion, the company may offer us one last chance to have MOU protections after NDA discussions are complete and before AMRs POR is confirmed by the court as the proposed US Airways merger.

USA320Pilot

 

[Phoenix]

.. the company may offer us one last chance ...

Ya think.

I don't know if I can keep a straight face if I hear another concession demand packaged up in a "this is your last change" with a frilly bow on top, one more time.

If DUI shows up in a pink tutu to deliver the "one last chance" then, at long last, THAT would be something new!

 

[nevergiveup]

I'm open for debate and education.

For those who support the BPRs MOU actions can you tell me where my comments are wrong in regard to LPPs, CARs, LOA 96 Minimum Block Hours/Hulls, and the CoC?

Could we be worse off in the future by losing the MOUs Scope protections?

In addition, how many times have US Airways' pilots benefited from the union leader's decision(s) to act against the advice of the advisers?

In my opinion, the company may offer us one last chance to have MOU protections after NDA discussions are complete and before AMRs POR is confirmed by the court as the proposed US Airways merger.

USA320Pilot

I think an MOU will pass with only slight clarifications made by the company and something a little sweeter than 10k. The fact that they would not talk to us prior to non-disclosure was very fishy. Delta got 60k and I heard UAL is getting 45k per pilot.(numbers may vary) Are we not worth that, especially with what we have given up in the last 7 years. They aren't even willing to give us parity for 3 more years!

 

[luvn737s]

Are you drunk? Its a little early yet. LOA 93 was a concession our advisors recommended during bankruptcy. It is a concession, just like all the others, that we agreed to. Hubris had nothing to do with it. Voting "no", by definition, isn't how you get more concessions.

No, you could have gone with the company's first "ask", but the "Concession stand was closed", so you got LOA93 shoved down your throats in lieu of what the BK judge could have done.

I am really having a hard time understanding why the east stays so committed to losing strategies.