AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

I think an MOU will pass with only slight clarifications made by the company and something a little sweeter than 10k. The fact that they would not talk to us prior to non-disclosure was very fishy. Delta got 60k and I heard UAL is getting 45k per pilot.(numbers may vary) Are we not worth that, especially with what we have given up in the last 7 years. They aren't even willing to give us parity for 3 more years!

No, the company will see no reason to sweeten anything, and under threat of reducing their offer, the MOU will pass overwhelmingly. And technically you won't even get DAL/UAL parity in 3 years, only the promise to "review" it.

That vote for USAPA's leaving a mighty bad taste in your mouth, isn't it. The whole reason you are looking at such a meager MOU is because the east allowed the lunatic fringe of pilot labor to have free reign. The value of unity can't be overestimated, something you forgot to remind Cleary about.

Woulda+coulda+shoulda=Ain't gonna.

 

[A320 Driver]

Our advisors have always recommended we accept more concessions, and the company has always come to us with more opportunities for more concessions. We have always been good for it.

Don't worry, nothing has changed. They will be back soon, and consider it a bonus... there will be a much greater necessity to rush to accept the next concessions.

Listen up, OK? Had we listened to our advisors, LOA93 would look a lot better than it does now. More pay, more vacation, stock value at 10 times what we ended up with. No, that is another example of us being stupid, not listening and paying a price. An 1113 motion is what finally forced us into what we have now.
Also, you're right. Nothing has changed. Those that were elected to represent us have failed us again with cowardess and stupidity. Three of them in CLT are about to pay the price for that. After that little piece of business, we'll start working on the rest.

Driver...

 

[Phoenix]

Listen up, OK? Had we listened to our advisors, LOA93 would look a lot better than it does now. More pay, more vacation, stock value at 10 times what we ended up with. No, that is another example of us being stupid, not listening and paying a price. An 1113 motion is what finally forced us into what we have now.
Also, you're right. Nothing has changed. Those that were elected to represent us have failed us again with cowardess and stupidity. Three of them in CLT are about to pay the price for that. After that little piece of business, we'll start working on the rest.

Driver...

Oh I have been listening for a long time. I have no doubt the company will be back with a crisis opportunity for another round of concessions worse than what they already offered, and when it passes you and Chip will be back blaming the folks who didn't vote yes.

Nothing has changed. Management has played us like a fiddle for decades. In Vietnam soldiers fragged the lieutenant... and received more lieutenants that they wanted to frag. People are people. What are ya gonna do...

Shoot me for voting no. I get it. Its my fault.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I think an MOU will pass with only slight clarifications made by the company and something a little sweeter than 10k. The fact that they would not talk to us prior to non-disclosure was very fishy. Delta got 60k and I heard UAL is getting 45k per pilot.(numbers may vary) Are we not worth that, especially with what we have given up in the last 7 years. They aren't even willing to give us parity for 3 more years!

You haven't given up anything. You purchased separate ops to delay the results final and binding arbitration for wages far below what the company was willing to pay to obtain a NIC-inclusive JCBA. Silver may soon prevent you from continuing to make that purchase in summary judgement fashion, but trying to paint the east as victims who have made incalculable sacrifices to the company is like trying to paint the Menedez brothers as poor little victim orphaned boys.

 

[A320 Driver]

Oh I have been listening for a long time. I have no doubt the company will be back with a crisis opportunity for another round of concessions worse than what they already offered, and when it passes you and Chip will be back blaming the folks who didn't vote yes.

Nothing has changed. Management has played us like a fiddle for decades. In Vietnam soldiers fragged the lieutenant... and received more lieutenants that they wanted to frag. People are people. What are ya gonna do...

Shoot me for voting no. I get it. Its my fault.

It's only your fault if you made your decision before you have invested the time to educate yourself on the issues. An informed decision, based on the facts, not emotions, not rhetoric, not misinformation is a vote with a pupose. It doesn't matter if it is yes or no as long as it is the product of what lies ahead of us, not what is behind us.

Driver...

 

[nevergiveup]

No, the company will see no reason to sweeten anything, and under threat of reducing their offer, the MOU will pass overwhelmingly. And technically you won't even get DAL/UAL parity in 3 years, only the promise to "review" it.

That vote for USAPA's leaving a mighty bad taste in your mouth, isn't it. The whole reason you are looking at such a meager MOU is because the east allowed the lunatic fringe of pilot labor to have free reign. The value of unity can't be overestimated, something you forgot to remind Cleary about.

Woulda+coulda+shoulda=Ain't gonna.

I would vote for USAPA again, just to watch you squirm! I guess you are right though, we should turn it down!

 

[luvn737s]

I would vote for USAPA again, just to watch you squirm! I guess you are right though, we should turn it down!

Now there's an informed voter! I would bet if you had a representation vote today, it would be the hard-line USAPians that would be squirming.

Yeah, use the reasoning from your first sentence to make your decision on the second. You can vote it down if you want, but you won't see anything better the next time around. You never have in the past, have you?OOps, there won't be a next time around, because APA won't indulge your childish antics. They'll serve up what they want and you'll eat it.

 

[Phoenix]

It's only your fault if you made your decision before you have invested the time to educate yourself on the issues. An informed decision, based on the facts, not emotions, not rhetoric, not misinformation is a vote with a pupose. It doesn't matter if it is yes or no as long as it is the product of what lies ahead of us, not what is behind us.

Driver...

The outcome of a vote of 6,000 voters is my fault if... you are one creative thinker to come up with any reason one pilot could have such responsibility for the natural outcome of.... democracy.

 

[nevergiveup]

Now there's an informed voter! I would bet if you had a representation vote today, it would be the hard-line USAPians that would be squirming.

Yeah, use the reasoning from your first sentence to make your decision on the second. You can vote it down if you want, but you won't see anything better the next time around. You never have in the past, have you?OOps, there won't be a next time around, because APA won't indulge your childish antics. They'll serve up what they want and you'll eat it.

So get off the fence for a second. Do you want the MOU, or do you not want the MOU?

 

[nevergiveup]

You haven't given up anything. You purchased separate ops to delay the results final and binding arbitration for wages far below what the company was willing to pay to obtain a NIC-inclusive JCBA. Silver may soon prevent you from continuing to make that purchase in summary judgement fashion, but trying to paint the east as victims who have made incalculable sacrifices to the company is like trying to paint the Menedez brothers as poor little victim orphaned boys.

Good to see you back!

 

[A320 Driver]

You haven't given up anything. You purchased separate ops to delay the results final and binding arbitration for wages far below what the company was willing to pay to obtain a NIC-inclusive JCBA. Silver may soon prevent you from continuing to make that purchase in summary judgement fashion, but trying to paint the east as victims who have made incalculable sacrifices to the company is like trying to paint the Menedez brothers as poor little victim orphaned boys.

Looks like we have another delay in Judge Silver's courtroom.

 

[nevergiveup]

Looks like we have another delay in Judge Silver's courtroom.

Hava!

 

[luvn737s]

So get off the fence for a second. Do you want the MOU, or do you not want the MOU?

There's no alternative to the crummy MOU, so there's no alternative to a YES vote. Brought to you courtesy of the Yellow Lanyard Club.

 

[nevergiveup]

There's no alternative to the crummy MOU, so there's no alternative to a YES vote. Brought to you courtesy of the Yellow Lanyard Club.

Life goes on. Beer is still good. Looking forward to Oct. vac!

 

[luvthe9]

The fact that you won't tell me your relative seniority at the time of the "merger" says it all. Your mind is closed to a discussion of what our seniority debacle is all about.

I am not going to figure it out for myself because I really don't care now that I know how closed minded you are.

I do not have access to your list from back then but I do have current info. I was a 1998 hire and a reserve captain in 2005. You were a 1984 hire and, I'm guessing a first officer. My relative seniority was 47% and I am guessing yours in the 50 to 60's. I must be one of those 850 you "lost" numbers to.

I am not willing to hand over my captain seat to you, or anyone like you, just because you were hired in 1984 and clung to a losing company all the way to the bottom. Get over yourself.

How sad........And you guessed wrong about 84 hires. The ones I know upgraded in 1989 and never lost their captains seats or blocks for that matter. And they made far more in their careers than you have. Or a West 84 hire. By far.