traderjake
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2002
- Messages
- 5,669
- Reaction score
- 9,308
Always looking at life through the rear view mirror.................how sad.
AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Admin
- Start date
- Status
Always looking at life through the rear view mirror.................how sad.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
Yep, Uncle Ed bought them a captain seat and DOH was very good to them. And they laughed as things went the other way down south...
Jim
"And they laughed..." Those heartless bastiges! How could they do that to you!?? 😉
Wow!...All these years later; and you're still bemoaning your great, personal tragedy of not being allowed to disregard the longer work experience of others just to serve your selfish nature....and you even left out the painful parts about your never getting picked for any teams or invited to any parties..Sniffle...poor, pitiful widdle jimbo 😉
Indeed..and P.T. Barnum's cynical wisdom is still worth considering.
lynyrdskynyrd
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,182
- Reaction score
- 558
From my own connecting of dots, Ames and 'we hate you guys' are not the same person.
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,430
- Reaction score
- 1,143
BB said: "Yep, Uncle Ed bought them a captain seat and DOH was very good to them. And they laughed as things went the other way down south..."
I agree to the event (but not to Uncle Ed having anything to do with it.) That was a strange one, because of the focus on slotting, the PI merger committee failed to offer any suggestions of C/R in the event it went DOH, as it did. I seem to remember the only pilots actually protected were the 767 guys, since U had no such aircraft. And we made the same type of mistake here in 2007, not providing for options in the event it did NOT go DOH (and we all know how that turned out!)
A couple points of fact, not in reply to your post but to previous ones: I was an 1985 hire, and anyone that wanted to was able to upgrade in late 1990 and has never lost that seat. As to the myth DOH is not in US Airway's history, I can only go back as far as 1968 .....Lake Central, then Mohawk, then PSA, then PI...ALL DOH with C/R. And then there is Maude....Shuttle by our old friend NIC, that broke the perfect streak. That was the last completed seniority integration, now closing on 20 years past. Whatever the industry may have been doing as a whole (read PI/Empire, DAL/NWA, or maybe U/CO) there is a historical consistency to pilot mergers at U.
For those wanting to do the "let's all hold hands with the APA pilots" I will share that history lesson for another post. It has been very consistent, and not pretty. Hopefully our BPR is smart enough to conscript that a MOU be created to mitigate such a disaster….oops, they already did, and had buyer's remorse.
Greeter
I agree to the event (but not to Uncle Ed having anything to do with it.) That was a strange one, because of the focus on slotting, the PI merger committee failed to offer any suggestions of C/R in the event it went DOH, as it did. I seem to remember the only pilots actually protected were the 767 guys, since U had no such aircraft. And we made the same type of mistake here in 2007, not providing for options in the event it did NOT go DOH (and we all know how that turned out!)
A couple points of fact, not in reply to your post but to previous ones: I was an 1985 hire, and anyone that wanted to was able to upgrade in late 1990 and has never lost that seat. As to the myth DOH is not in US Airway's history, I can only go back as far as 1968 .....Lake Central, then Mohawk, then PSA, then PI...ALL DOH with C/R. And then there is Maude....Shuttle by our old friend NIC, that broke the perfect streak. That was the last completed seniority integration, now closing on 20 years past. Whatever the industry may have been doing as a whole (read PI/Empire, DAL/NWA, or maybe U/CO) there is a historical consistency to pilot mergers at U.
For those wanting to do the "let's all hold hands with the APA pilots" I will share that history lesson for another post. It has been very consistent, and not pretty. Hopefully our BPR is smart enough to conscript that a MOU be created to mitigate such a disaster….oops, they already did, and had buyer's remorse.
Greeter
You've far more knowledge of the west participants than myself, so I'm reasonably sure your correct there.
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,430
- Reaction score
- 1,143
Phoenix said earlier today: "Speaking of "experts", there seems to be a lot of talk lately about our "experts", coupled with demagoguing against people perceived to be outside the bounds of their expert advice. Lets think back about our expert advisors…. The experts, for as long as I can remember, have always painted an unfavorable doom if we didn't take their advice. Oddly though, as far as I recall their advice has always advocated that we accept the company's FIRST offer to work more days, for less money, with fewer pilots. And we have always followed their advice!!
Our advisors have always whispered echoes of "more, more, more… give the company more, more, more"… and here we are with less, less, less... but at least we have a job that is enjoyable, with great people to work along side.
Be that as it may, no credit or blame goes to our advisors… neither to individual pilots.. we voted collectively, whenever we could. And all the credit or blame goes to us, hey "We are ALPA." Don't' ya know it"
I kind of agree with you on the history of listening to and following, or not heeding the advice of our hired guns. But I have to reset a new starting point to the formation of USAPA. We mandated that a professional negotiator be front and center at the table. Even that wish was crushed in the first 3 years, and I fault Seham and Company for not doing as we asked. But here we are now, with the plan being executed as was voted in 2008. Not listening to ALPA paid advisors is one thing. But 2/3 of our current legal team was hired by Cleary, and Roland was hired (put over the top) by the CLT reps after Hummel took office. Seems to me politically the legal team is amoral to local politics. I choose to follow their advice, the BPR to a man has done just the opposite.
Greeter
Our advisors have always whispered echoes of "more, more, more… give the company more, more, more"… and here we are with less, less, less... but at least we have a job that is enjoyable, with great people to work along side.
Be that as it may, no credit or blame goes to our advisors… neither to individual pilots.. we voted collectively, whenever we could. And all the credit or blame goes to us, hey "We are ALPA." Don't' ya know it"
I kind of agree with you on the history of listening to and following, or not heeding the advice of our hired guns. But I have to reset a new starting point to the formation of USAPA. We mandated that a professional negotiator be front and center at the table. Even that wish was crushed in the first 3 years, and I fault Seham and Company for not doing as we asked. But here we are now, with the plan being executed as was voted in 2008. Not listening to ALPA paid advisors is one thing. But 2/3 of our current legal team was hired by Cleary, and Roland was hired (put over the top) by the CLT reps after Hummel took office. Seems to me politically the legal team is amoral to local politics. I choose to follow their advice, the BPR to a man has done just the opposite.
Greeter
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 16,512
- Reaction score
- 5,865
Who bought PI then??? Remember all the 737-400's then went north - how many checked out due to that??? Then there's that one tidbit Ed dropped in the arbitration - "If those Piedmont boys will just be patient the growth will take care of them." Two years later 1/3 the pilots were furloughed...but maybe that's what he meant by "take care of them"...
Yet there were numerous C&R's, not just the supposed 767 protection. Nearly all got turned on their head, as was the 767 C&R, by the north MC and RIDC.
Jim
You should have been a politician with that answer! It's true, but not quite the whole story. You were in the top 517, so you were put ahead of all AWA pilots, thereby gaining relative position and given super seniority(could have been) by Nicolau.
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,430
- Reaction score
- 1,143
Jim, I will cede and agree to all of your history..except the pilot integration part. Ed, RIDC, USA Today, and even the lunchroom ladies in the PIT training center had NOTHING to do with that. That was ALPA, and us chickens. Nobody else. I could care less about management "promises." They had no meaning during the list merger.
Greeter
Greeter
Phoenix
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2003
- Messages
- 8,584
- Reaction score
- 7,430
One born every minute.. imagine the missed opportunities out there!
I was an 84 hire who made capt in 4.3 yrs.They are uninformed as usual. They haven't a clue. It's not about my relativity and I'm not suggesting DOH...wrong again! I've made more money in my career with USAirways then they have with AWA...or will in equal time...again their judgement is wrong again.That's one of the reasons I left. When you guys can present any kind of logical argument.......I'll respond. So far you haven't. Your pathetic logic is nothing but amusement. And for 924..... Whatever your call sign is......I will abide by Silvers judgement. I always have and always will. And Ames? And the rest of you. I'd appreciate when you mass group the Easties in your numbers.......leave me out.
fifidriver
Senior
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2011
- Messages
- 339
- Reaction score
- 455
I'm sure that you know what Einstein said about "doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results”...
- Status
Similar threads
