AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

She's done everything except put the date on it. I wouldn't be surprised to see either the company or the West pilots appeal to the 9th. I don't think they stand a chance seeing how Judge Silver's ruling reflects the previous ruling from the 9th.

In any case, I see more delays in our future. USAPA (meaning the BPR), in my opinion, is incapable of crafting a comprehensive proposal to satisfy the problems with the seniority integration. They lack both the courage and the foresight to pull it off. Most of them will take what happened in Judge Silver's court as a blank check to do what they want and that is clearly not the case. No, it doesn't have to be the NIC, but it had better be something that protects the interests of the West pilots or USAPA ends up back in court defending a DFR suit.

Sorry, I'm stating the obvious but I just felt like saying it...

Driver...

Well, it's good to see at least someone on the east gets it. I'm afraid however that a lot of your co-workers out east think this is the green light to staple the west aka DOH. They're going to be really disapointed when they figure out that's just not the case. Oh well, here's toasting (cup of coffee) to an American merger, because its the only way we're getting out of this quagmire.

Bean

 

[Pi brat]

Wow. I should be honored that you consider my opinion so highly as to dig through year old posts of mine. Judge Silver hasn't made a final ruling yet. Oral arguments could have changed her mind.

Either way, I will admit I was wrong about the timeline and may be wrong abour her ruling. So what.

The bottom line is that we are no further along than we were before the company filed the DJ. Despite ucrapa's extremely inaccurate declaration that they are free to negotiate without the Nic the ball is back in Parker's court.

If he attempts to negotiate without the Nic he will be in breach of contract and that is much easier to litigate than DFR.

The company was hoping (in its cowardly way) that the judge would do its dirty work for it. She hasn't.

If Parker wants to move along with his merger the easiest course he can take is to merge with the Nic list. It's legal, he already accepted it and his attorney stated so in court. Your DOH fantasy is not the path of least resistance and we all know he likes that path.

Oh Ames, thanks for the laugh! You are one of the poster on here that I have absolutely no use for and wouldn't take your word on whether the sun was up. I didn't have to go looking for anything, it's right on my desktop. You see, I have a file called B.S. predictions. When you open your mouth I copy and paste to it, just waiting.

I have no idea what will happen, but I feel pretty confident on one thing. Parker has one main priority right now and that is running a new American Airlines. To do that he will throw the west, the east or both under the bus. Second priority is saving as much money on our backs as possible, and again he will do what ever it takes.

Have a great day.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

OK boys! Even though the judge has not issued her final order, usapa has declared victory and ding dong the Nicolau is dead.









So now what? Any prediction on how long it is going to take the all-knowing all powerful usapa to get a contract with DOH and huge pay raises?

Usapa had the excuse for not getting a contract that the Nicolau was in the way. Now there is no excuse (says usapa). Usapa said there are no more obstacles to negotiations. Where is that industry standard contract?





The company seems to think that without an answer from the court there will be no contract negotiations. They did not get their answer. Think the company is going to go into section 6 uncovered? Does the NMB suddenly schedule meetings because usapa says the obstacle has been cleared even though the court did not answer the question?

While usapa says they are free to negotiate, where is it written that the company is willing to negotiate for seniority? In order to negotiate you have to have 2 parties willing. The company has already said that they are not willing to negotiate line bidding and we will have PBS. What if the company says we don’t know what our liability is so we have to stick with the safe harbor and will not negotiate seniority other than the Nicolau? The NMB is not going to release over seniority. So what does usapa do if no one will negotiate seniority?

What happens if usapa drops a DOH list on the company and they simply say no? They have done it with PBS, parity, pay rates, insurance, work rules and everything else usapa has demanded. What is plan B if the company just says no?

How long will it be before usapa actually has to perform and provide the entire pilot group some benefit other than delay? Show us how it is done fellows. No more road blocks. You east pilots have the majority and all that experience. Go get that DOH contract. The sooner the better please. Courts are backed up and we need to get to DFRII.

Well all things take time, we will just wait and see! 3% up next, Hopefully before halloween, tractors are on sale, man those hayrides are a blast! MUTATIS!

 

[cleardirect]

What has happened here, as Your Honor knows, we have

the arbitration decision that was conducted before Mr. Nicolau.

We have the constitution of USAPA that says it cannot be

Nicolau and it has to be date of hire. We have the two pieces

and the carrier doesn't negotiate the seniority list. It

accepts from the union the seniority list. It was asked

originally to accept the result of the arbitration award and

then when the new union came in, it was asked to accept the

date of hire, but it doesn't negotiate the seniority list in a

traditional sense. It just accepts it. SIEGEL

If you had kept that quote in context you would have a different meaning. The company accepted the Nicolau now they are not trustworthy or have the integrity to live up to their word like east pilots? If the company can change it's mind why would you believe they would live up to anything else in the contract?

Now if as you think the company just accepts seniority why have they not done it for 5 years? Why would they suddenly accept DOH now even though the court did not give them an answer to the question?

 

[cleardirect]

Well all things take time, we will just wait and see! 3% up next, Hopefully before halloween, tractors are on sale, man those hayrides are a blast! MUTATIS!

3%? You are still hanging on that dream? Halloween what year do you think you are going to get an answer?

Kasher already did that arbitration. He was asked to re-look at a very small piece of that. How long has it been? 2 years? If he was going to give you anything he would have done it already. If there is no raise and no money he can sit on that forever.

The only raise you are going to get is with a merger. usapa is not going to any of us, anything.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey "NOTHING HAS CHANGED" When is the move? :blush: :blush:

Posted it numerous times moron.

 

[Claxon]

The Westoffs are in full denial mode. Ten to one the ambulance chaser Harper presses on. I hope it goes to the 9 th and the court can finally spell it out in language these morons can understand.

 

[Claxon]

Posted it numerous times moron.

Probably the stupidest of the lot. The move crap is never going to happen.

 

[Claxon]

Now the company has no integrity Cleardirect? Two parties have put your seniority heist on ice. You are the pure definition of entitlement.thankfully Silver stopped you cold.

 

[nic4us]

Dan Davis is a hero.

don't know the guy....all I know is judging from an exchange he had on another board, he is totally clueless as to his own situation and wants desperately to steal something that is not his.

Hope I meet the guy....that way I can put him straight on how to better plan for his future.

 

[nic4us]

Go read the case law. DOH is fair and the mistake that the West has ALWAYS made is to believe that everything will be compared to the NIC to determine a DFR. Says who. You want to count judges. Well the last 2 could have easily validated the NIC but did not. Read the cases. DOH does serve the pliot group as a whole. Can't wait for the next trial. NIC probably won't even be mentioned.

NICDOA
NPJB

Says every judge who has looked at the case....

Harm will be measured relative to the Nic, and the reason why the east formed the scab union.....

West still has the smoking gun letter Bradford received.


See Barrister, the deal is usapa was formed with the specific purpose of scabbing West jobs, we have mounds of evidence to back that up. usapa was not formed to "serve the pilot group as a whole".

So, every bit of case law you care to look at says a successor union inherits the predecessor's contracts, that discrimination against a minority class just to appease the majority is not a "legitimate union purpose" and Dan Davis is a scab.

 

[nic4us]

The Westoffs are in full denial mode. Ten to one the ambulance chaser Harper presses on. I hope it goes to the 9 th and the court can finally spell it out in language these morons can understand.

Well, if it does go to the 9th, I don't think it will be because the West takes it there.

Pretty sure the west will just wait for the final word from Silver and then tell the company and usapa...

GO AHEAD...TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU!!!

I further suspect the company's reply will be to tell the scab union to go pound sand in their parked LOA93 corner.

 

[nycbusdriver]

It is my understanding that the West is at fleet min and the east is "slightly" above fleet min with the added bonus of a fleet of 190s that do not count in fleet min, in which, there are ironically seats owed the West due to arbitration along with some 757 flying, that are actually being flown by West pilots now recalled east after usapa used the company to steal their West jobs.


"Following up"???? What is that BS. The company started down the collection process road from the West on the distance learning over payment the day after scab Parella dropped the grievance. And, even if they are "following up" where the hell is the min block payment 4 years after the fact?

Pull my head out of my ass??? You do not see the gross discrimination taking place here?

The company decides to furlough in 2008....they need to lay off 300 pilots...so 175 or 10% of the West (that is already at and which is taken below min block) and 125 or less than 3% of the east (that is still above min block), and to add insult, they retain pilots who are by all measures junior to their West counterparts at usapa's request so the scabs can make a statement supporting their seniority theft scam?

Waaaaaaaaa!

 

[cleardirect]

Now the company has no integrity Cleardirect? Two parties have put your seniority heist on ice. You are the pure definition of entitlement.thankfully Silver stopped you cold.

You are saying that Parker and the company DO have integrity?

Judge Silver has not stopped anything. She so far has refused to answer the question two very different things.

 

[nic4us]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Now that this obstacle has been removed, we will immediately petition the National Mediation Board to resume section 6 contract negotiations.[/background]



Clueless....and yet priceless...no that is the wrong word..we can put a price on LOA93/contract2004..that makes it much easier to tally damages.

Somebody ought to get a hold of James( continental scab) Ray and stop him before he makes more evidence in front of media cameras.