AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

He needs it bad based on what he offered to give us for it, yeah right.

It's not worth anything to us if he can get around it

Then make him go around it if it is so easy. USA320 pilot says it should go to make it cheaper for the company. Why would you help Doug Parker and Franke Air in any way? The entire reasoning is fabrication. He is stymied by the COC, hence he puts it in the MOU. It is an obstacle. Make him go around it or make him pay. Don't give him anything as he gives you nothing. The eastern group is starting to wise up, but they are still easy targets for management. The Jetblue group wants nothing to do with AA. The USAir tremblers become airline analysts, and think they have it all figured out. The AA wants you for the pension money only, then they will step on you. The western group has some serious landmines in the MOU. I suspect their leadership will steer them into a no vote as Ferguson actually has the sense to figure the MOU for what it is. Hummel is in far over his head. You are absolute fools not to address the scope issue.

 

[luvn737s]

Not "Wolfe". It's "Wolf". Mr. Stephen Wolf. He gave us parity plus 1%. DUI wants to have our our scope, CoC, min fleet and LPP's now, and promises to discuss parity in three years. No. No. No.

They are his to take. The Angry F/O's got their upgrades and now can vote Yes and screw the more junior, which was USAPA's plan from the beginning.

This should be called the Bradford MOU since facing it is a direct result of his hairbrained scheme

 

[luvthe9]

Someone's excellent point of view.
[background=transparent]
I have just spent 4 full days at union meetings this week, one CLT and 3 BPR. I felt compelled to show up and stay from start to finish. My observation is the MOU, in its' present form, is substandard and an insult to this pilot group. There are many holes in this MOU, the company has the power to do almost anything in their favor, and possibly leaving us in worse shape than we are right now. I urge everyone not to get caught up in the pay rates, this is what the company wants. After 7 years of deplorable working conditions, LOA93, no parity with the West, plus the missing 3% everyone is still wondering about, this company basically bribes us with a $10,000 signing bonus. This shows the disrespect management has for this pilot group, what a slap in the face. [/background][background=transparent]

[/background][background=transparent]
Believe me when I say there is much more to gain from this management. AMR has turned down 2 offers and are voting whether to strike. One turn down, got them an offer of 13.5% ownership of the new AMR. That pilot group has earned my respect with their unity and backbone, we, as a group, need to show them we have the same backbone and unity. We would be insane to accept the first offer the company and our legal staff are trying to convince us to take. We are a profitable airline looking to merge with a bankrupt airline. This merger is going to happen, being proactive and showing unity, will benefit us in the long run. [/background][background=transparent]

[/background][background=transparent]
The BPR showed their resolve with a "Disapprove" vote. Do whatever you can to attend an upcoming road show. After listening and asking questions, I believe a NO vote is the best thing to do. This will send a message to management that we will not be intimidated any more, and that this pilot group has had enough of being treated as a second class citizen.[/background][background=transparent]

[/background]

 

[wopr21]

Why are we going for a MOU and not a real contractual tentative agreement? AA has one with Parker and Parker isn't even the CEO of american. We can't even get a tentative with our own CEO.

I will keep an open mind on the MOU and vote once I have all the true facts at the road show. I hope that others on this board will do the same and not vote on the emotionally generated information posted.

wopr

 

[EastCheats]

Someone's excellent point of view.
[background=transparent]
We are a profitable airline looking to merge with a bankrupt airline.

And history will repeat itself.

Welcome to our world.

 

[luvthe9]

A pilots view point..When I arrived at the meeting on Monday, John Owens introduced himself to me and stated that I was going to be very happy and that I would be shocked by the results they are delivering…….. I was shocked alright! I do not see how this TA truly protects me. Especially when I heard numerous times today that even with this agreement there will be job loss and there will be stagnation for several years.

I took a lot of heat today from a few very senior pilots that were in attendance. I was disturbed by their anger and disrespect for my opinions. One was very aggressive toward me. He first told me that I will be driving a tug soon (I have already done that 5 ½ years for him to save his job.), and later he angrily explained to me that he needs a “yes” vote, and if I vote “no” I will be cancelling out his vote. A bit ego-centric, don’t you think? I simply voiced my opinion about the agreement, and my concerns regarding job protections.

I know you were pressed for time today, however I feel that I was not given the opportunity to finish my statement. I wanted to make clear that in the end, I fully support a decision to present the MOA to the pilot group for ratification. The pilot group deserves to make the decision based on unbiased, accurate information. That being said, so far, I plan to vote “no” based on the lack of conviction in the writing of the agreement. We both know that Intent holds no water with this management team.

I personally feel that the agreement has been offered all too conveniently close to the proposed USA-AA non-disclosure agreement, and that the company is once again using scare tactics on the US Airways pilot group, as have been used many times before.

I noticed that you did not say much during the meetings; however, your body language spoke volumes about your position. I value the opinion of you, my BPR and the professional negotiators, but my gut suggests to me that as a bottom pilot at this airline, the current transition agreement protects me better than the vague MOA language. I am sure you will agree that there is no guarantee of attrition until December 15[sup]th[/sup] when, and if, the age 65 is still in force. What I do believe is that there will be reductions within my peer group.

I have been an advocate for you since your first day on the ballot. Gary, I am tasked to make the best decision that I can based on the information (or lack of) that I am presented. That is my responsibility to my family.

Hopefully this all works out and we can discuss this on the line after it is all past history. I thank you and the rest of the USAPA staff for your dedication and efforts to protect our futures.
What a mistake it was to put Owens in. My add on, not in original post.

 

[Phoenix]

They are his to take. The Angry F/O's got their upgrades and now can vote Yes and screw the more junior, which was USAPA's plan from the beginning.

This should be called the Bradford MOU since facing it is a direct result of his hairbrained scheme

I am not sure you got my point. Let me clarify. 320 presented himself as being informed, and then supported the MOU. His argument in favor of the MOU rests on the premise that he is very well informed, even suggests he is far more informed than the average pilot.

Problem is, he doesn't even know how to spell Mr. Wolf's name. To add irony to a blunder, he suggested that his personal experience under Wolf is proof that he is knowledgeable of the suffering that mgt can impose on gullible labor (besause he is informed). If he doesn't know how to spell Wolf's name, how knowledgeable was he of Wolf's trickery? If he now thinks he is knowledgeable of DUI's trickery, is he?

And more, even Wolf (whom was so bad) gave us parity plus 1%, yet DUI (whom is now in 320's mind apparently somewhat better than Wolf).. DUI won't give us parity.

 

[BoeingBoy]

And more, even Wolf (whom was so bad) gave us parity plus 1%, yet DUI (whom is now in 320's mind apparently somewhat better than Wolf).. DUI won't give us parity.

I love the fantasy that Wolf "gave" parity + 1%. Wolf extracted parity + 1%, along with productivity increases, from the pilots. Unfortunately, not long before the first parity review the UA pilots negotiated a big raise then the DL pilots did the same a year later before the second parity review. As a result, what was intended to be pay concessions turned into pay raises.

If you're gonna be handing out kudos, at least hand them to the people that actually got you the raises - the UA and DL ALPA pilots...

Jim

 

[firedougparker]

Why are we going for a MOU and not a real contractual tentative agreement? AA has one with Parker and Parker isn't even the CEO of american. We can't even get a tentative with our own CEO.

I will keep an open mind on the MOU and vote once I have all the true facts at the road show. I hope that others on this board will do the same and not vote on the emotionally generated information posted.

wopr

I agree- it's ridiculous. Doug wants all of you to take a "leap of faith". How do you know that leap won't lead to a crappy contract?

A colleague sent this to me yesterday. It's a very interesting perspective by some USAPA people:

https://www.listbox.com/post/20120823/349743A6-ED7E-11E1-9EFD-EF9B4B639382/10158095-ceef420a

 

[Piedmont1984]

Phoenix

C'mon now. How many have mixed up Mowrey with Mowery, or misspelled Nicolau (Nicolai), or simply missed a key on the keyboard.

Regarding Parity+1, that sure was a good week.

 

[fifidriver]

I am wondering if acceptance of the MOU and subsequent furlough out of Nic seniority order would sufficiently ripen a hybrid DFR. Hmmm?

 

[700UW]

Parker does not have a Tentative Agreement with the APA, its an MOU and further negotiations are to take place.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why are we going for a MOU and not a real contractual tentative agreement? AA has one with Parker and Parker isn't even the CEO of american.

Actually, the APA also only has a MOU - a contractual TA has to await an actual merger. Besides, do you really want to be committed to contract language that ties you to the APA if a merger doesn't happen and they end up with an abrogated contract?

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Someone's excellent point of view.

[background=transparent]I have just spent 4 full days at union meetings this week, one CLT and 3 BPR. I felt compelled to show up and stay from start to finish. My observation is the MOU, in its' present form, is substandard and an insult to this pilot group. There are many holes in this MOU, the company has the power to do almost anything in their favor, and possibly leaving us in worse shape than we are right now. I urge everyone not to get caught up in the pay rates, this is what the company wants. After 7 years of deplorable working conditions, LOA93, no parity with the West, plus the missing 3% everyone is still wondering about, this company basically bribes us with a $10,000 signing bonus. This shows the disrespect management has for this pilot group, what a slap in the face. [/background]


[background=transparent]Believe me when I say there is much more to gain from this management. AMR has turned down 2 offers and are voting whether to strike. One turn down, got them an offer of 13.5% ownership of the new AMR. That pilot group has earned my respect with their unity and backbone, we, as a group, need to show them we have the same backbone and unity. We would be insane to accept the first offer the company and our legal staff are trying to convince us to take. We are a profitable airline looking to merge with a bankrupt airline. This merger is going to happen, being proactive and showing unity, will benefit us in the long run. [/background]


[background=transparent]The BPR showed their resolve with a "Disapprove" vote. Do whatever you can to attend an upcoming road show. After listening and asking questions, I believe a NO vote is the best thing to do. This will send a message to management that we will not be intimidated any more, and that this pilot group has had enough of being treated as a second class citizen.[/background]

We can debate the merits of the MOU all month long...but lets not rewrite history while we are doing it.....

This "excellent POV" is FOS.....

Lets not blame the company for the east's willingness to maintain LOA93, negative parity, and the 3% ain't missing..it is part the lost LOA93 grievance....you don't get it, you don't deserve it, and it ain't coming. get over it...you already wasted years chasing outs for the Nic...which BTW is coming whether through an AMR merger or if we stand alone...and you effed up our present position, which would be greatly enhanced had we been on a JCBA.

Who was in bankruptcy during the AWA/AAA merger, and why does the poster now think s/he has an advantage, when the east logic to date has been it did not matter that AAA was days from chapter 7? BTW, AMR is no where near as dire as AAA was in 2005.

 

[nic4us]

Parker does not have a Tentative Agreement with the APA, its an MOU and further negotiations are to take place.

to answere one of your questions...the F/As have a new TA out now, I think the vote closes Oct 01...and I have no idea if there is COC in that TA.