What's new

AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Can you post this document? I would very much like to see it.

Also, keep in mind that AFA fought tooth and nail to keep our Scope and LPP's. Don't drop the ball fella's.
 
Agreed. Enough already of this petty sniping at pilots, saying my leader rocks and yours is ruining everything. DUI is the one trying to take away scope. No. No. No.

By scope I suppose you mean codeshare. Under this agreement, we are trading one for the other. We are moving away from United and STAR and moving to AA and One World.

Driver...
 
Can you post this document? I would very much like to see it.

Also, keep in mind that AFA fought tooth and nail to keep our Scope and LPP's. Don't drop the ball fella's.

We didn't "give up" LPPs. They are covered automatically by Mccaskill-Bond. We don't need the language...it's federal law. That came straight from Rowland Wilder, our negotiator. I wonder what the flight attendants gave up to keep the LPPs that they didn't need any longer.

Driver...
 
There are plenty of reasons to vote no to this MOU. But, IMO, there are more reasons to vote yes. Already misinformation is circulating the pilot group and this board. I saw a nearly page long post that was filled with it. This is the time, more than ever before, that pilots need to invest the time to go to the roadshows and listen to the people that negotiated this document. For every point of change to our contract, there is a counterpoint or something to replace it that ties directly to this merger. I caution everyone to put the emotion and rumors aside and make an informed decision...up or down.

I invested three of my off days to go to these meetings and I got a real education. The best part was listening first hand to our NAC, our negotiator and our lawyers. I feel that I know enough to make that informed decision.

<snip>

Invest the time...it's your future.

Driver...

Excellent post. As can already be seen, there is no shortage of people wanting to tell everyone how to vote - supported by half truths and even false statements - and are only interested in furthering their own agenda.

Jim
 
Excellent post. As can already be seen, there is no shortage of people wanting to tell everyone how to vote - supported by half truths and even false statements - and are only interested in furthering their own agenda.

Jim
You 2 crack me up! MM! I hear MORTGAGE BACKED SECURITIES are a good investment, and DUI really knows how to run an airline!
 
We didn't "give up" LPPs. They are covered automatically by Mccaskill-Bond. We don't need the language...it's federal law. That came straight from Rowland Wilder, our negotiator. I wonder what the flight attendants gave up to keep the LPPs that they didn't need any longer.

Driver...

LPP's and Mccaskill-Bond are two separate things. Do a little research please.
 
LPP's and Mccaskill-Bond are two separate things. Do a little research please.

Huh???
Sections 3 and 13 of the LPPs are covered and federally mandated by McCaskill-Bond specifically having to do with seniority integration. Google it before you ask ME to research it.

Driver...
 
Huh???
Sections 3 and 13 of the LPPs are covered and federally mandated by McCaskill-Bond specifically having to do with seniority integration. Google it before you ask ME to research it.

Driver...

Has McCaskill-Bond been tested in the courts with the unions and management?
 
Maccaskill-Bond is a process that deals with seniority list intergration only.

LPP's deal with provisions specified in the CAB.
 
I can't tell if you are serious or not. I thought the PHX reps conducted themselves very well, asked a ton of questions to the advisors and voiced many legitimate concerns. Eric even took the lunch hour to talk to the pilots in attendance to get a feel for how this was affecting everyone.

Driver...
I remember belonging to a union where the opinions of the pilots were solicited through Wilson Center polling, etc.. Then the Nazi Party took over.

Why not allow the pilot group to tell management that the MOU is no good? The BPR does not have a record worth defending in the leadership area. That Cleary was able to go full term is the best evidence of that. Now you are going to reject the unbiased opinion of the Professional Negotiator you paid big money to.

Don't worry, the nanny of APA will come in and chage this pilot group's collective diaper.
 
Maccaskill-Bond is a process that deals with seniority list intergration only.

LPP's deal with provisions specified in the CAB.

CAB, the Civil Aeronautics Board? It ceased to exist in 1985.

If you are talking about the CBA, the collective bargaining agreement... with a little reserch you will find that the only thing really changed with regards to an LCC-AA merger is that arbitration is final as mandated in the act.

Tell me ONE specific thing in the LPPs as opposed to those provisions of McCaskill-Bond that we lost other that the ability to spend six years in court trying to avoid an arbitrated award. That is specifically what the company wants to avoid and I can see why. I have a novel idea: lets have a NEGOTIATED award.

Driver...
 
There are plenty of reasons to vote no to this MOU. But, IMO, there are more reasons to vote yes. Already misinformation is circulating the pilot group and this board. I saw a nearly page long post that was filled with it. This is the time, more than ever before, that pilots need to invest the time to go to the roadshows and listen to the people that negotiated this document. For every point of change to our contract, there is a counterpoint or something to replace it that ties directly to this merger. I caution everyone to put the emotion and rumors aside and make an informed decision...up or down.

I invested three of my off days to go to these meetings and I got a real education. The best part was listening first hand to our NAC, our negotiator and our lawyers. I feel that I know enough to make that informed decision. I have no problem with this agreement being voted up or down as long as it's done by a pilot group that is using it's head and looking forward. I wish every pilot could stand in a room like I did and listen to our management explain this merger and what it means going forward. Those of you that know me are full aware of my mistrust for management. Living through the Wolfe era taught me that. But there is a big difference in where we were and where we are. Wolfe wanted to dress up a pig and sell it, no matter what it took. From the get go he wanted to profit from it and walk away. At least this bunch wants to run an airline. They seem to have a grip on ops and we, as employees, are putting up some impressive performance numbers. Now, if we could combine those performance numbers with a reasonable contract, we would have something that we haven't had since 1989.

Invest the time...it's your future.

Driver...

Not "Wolfe". It's "Wolf". Mr. Stephen Wolf. He gave us parity plus 1%. DUI wants to have our our scope, CoC, min fleet and LPP's now, and promises to discuss parity in three years. No. No. No.
 
Not "Wolfe". It's "Wolf". Mr. Stephen Wolf. He gave us parity plus 1%. DUI wants to have our our scope, CoC, min fleet and LPP's now, and promises to discuss parity in three years. No. No. No.

OK, Wolf then...thanks!

He didn't give us anything. Parity+1% was a concession at the time that backfired when United got their big raises. That gave us big raises at the next parity review which were short lived.

You only get one "no". OK? 🙂 That is a decision you have already made. So be it.

Driver...
 
Not "Wolfe". It's "Wolf". Mr. Stephen Wolf. He gave us parity plus 1%. DUI wants to have our our scope, CoC, min fleet and LPP's now, and promises to discuss parity in three years. No. No. No.

They wanted our Scope and LPP's too. Big fat "no".
With the TA, we no longer have the COC language because the raises in the TA far excede the "snap back" wages.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top