AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

Phoenix said: "That is not the same as choosing to go to a different base and attempting to recall reps that won't be yours anyway in a month. That would be like recalling ALPA reps right before electing USAPA."

This is not about just one rep, but almost a third of our entire BPR causing us all great harm. We just found out last week DeWitt was secretly contacting the President of APA with his PERSONAL agenda.

As to the changeover, it is very possible the current rep's terms could be "rolled over" and they end up being seated as the initial base Reps for APA. Even more reason the CLT Reps need to be removed. Your "dismissal" of the current recall is telling.

Greeter

 

[EastUS1]

I was a 1998 hire and a reserve captain in 2005.

I am not willing to hand over my captain seat to you, or anyone like you, just because you were hired in 1984..........Get over yourself.

"I was a 1998 hire.......you were hired in 1984.......Get over yourself."...? Wow! What more can be said of such an almost unimaginable degree of self-obsession and utterly astonishing sense of personal entitlement?

Oh Well....There you have it folks. After all; why should anyone respect a mere 14 more years of service then himself? Season that with even a pinch of the unbelievable arrogance needed to follow that up with "Get over yourself" and we have the perfect recipe for the most toxic soup possible.

Can anyone honestly have any further questions here?

 

[EastUS1]

As a 1984 hire, please answer the following:

What was your relative position on the Nicolau Award vs. the 2005 pre-merger AAA seniority list position?

As a hearty proponent of the It's ALL about MEEE philosophy; what was YOURS? 😉

 

[Ames]

An '84 hire would have been a junior captain with a sprinkling of widebody F/O's included (those could have held junior captain but didn't). That's using the May 2005 status, not the certified list for seniority integration but close enough. It does cover a pretty wide range of seniority since PI was hiring like gangbusters back in 1984 through 1988 - 200 or more per year - so including all 4 carriers that comprised US at the US/HP merger (US, PI, PSA, Shuttle/EA) it was about 300 pilots or about 10% of the non-furloughed list in 2005.

Jim

So I was guessing a bit off. jetjoke and I were about the same relative seniority. He probably thinks that he should be 2000 numbers senior to me because of his DOH.

There is no arrogance in expecting relative seniority. There is no arrogance in expecting pilots furloughed on the day of the "merger" to go to the bottom of the list. The arrogance is plainly demonstrated when one expects to jump 15 to 20% in relative seniority or to place a pilot furloughed on the day of the "merger" in front of any active pilot.

DOH places formerly furloughed pilots nearly 800 numbers senior to me and that is absolutely unacceptable

 

[Ames]

You have a western mindset. It is what it is.

That's a good thing. It is what it is.

 

[Ames]

Enjoy the sunshine. Nobody wants to take your seat from you. I wear a 36 when I inhale!

You're wrong. There are about 2000 of you who want to take captain seats from west pilots. Otherwise we would not be fighting this out for the past five years.

PS: Eat less carbs.

 

[traderjake]

I've read through the DAL/NWA list. The disparity in longevity was limited in most cases to just a few years. That's a fact. So in their case, the arbitration panel was able to focus on other criteria or metrics and of course money provided the salve. So in the case of the new DAL, both seniority and longevity were adequately preserved.

Integrated Seniority List
In the Matter of the Seniority
Integration Arbitration
Between
THE PILOTS OF NORTHWEST
AIRLINES, INC.
and
THE PILOTS OF DELTA AIR
LINES, INC.

.www.nwaafa.org/docs/alpa/ALPASenAwardDLNWNoNames.pdf?.v=2 · PDF file


We turn first to the competing proposals concerning the underlying integration method: Date-of-Hire versus a Status and Category/Ratio approach. Although there are advantages and disadvantages to each method, the facts of this case persuade this Board that the Status and Category approach is the more fair and equitable. To be sure, prior
ALPA Arbitration Boards have merged Seniority Lists by means of date-weighted methods.But in this case, that method is not sufficiently responsive to the makeup of these two groups.


"The relative seniority mismatch between the two contingents results, when combined by Date-of-Hire, in a dramatic overloading of NWA pilots in premium flying categories, an imbalance that remains a virtual fixture in the ongoing relationship between the parties."


The first thing the arbitration panel did was reject DOH because it resulted in a windfall for the Northwest pilots, they never said the DOH between the two groups is close so lets move on.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix said: "That is not the same as choosing to go to a different base and attempting to recall reps that won't be yours anyway in a month. That would be like recalling ALPA reps right before electing USAPA."

This is not about just one rep, but almost a third of our entire BPR causing us all great harm. We just found out last week DeWitt was secretly contacting the President of APA with his PERSONAL agenda.

As to the changeover, it is very possible the current rep's terms could be "rolled over" and they end up being seated as the initial base Reps for APA. Even more reason the CLT Reps need to be removed. Your "dismissal" of the current recall is telling.

Greeter

Now we have found out that Hummel, Woody, Lance, and you have contacted One World alliance with your personal agendas, all because the BPR unanimously voted to reject the MOU (Ok, gee, lets make up a few more rumors. Your turn.).

The ALPA sycophants always squealed about switching horses in the middle of the stream... and they never had any unanimous votes.. accept to give away our pension. Now they can't find enough rumors and horses to switch fast enough.

 

[nic4us]

And you are full of it with the windfall BS that the East enjoyed at the West expense. So their we are.....stalemate.

You make no sense......as usual

Oh really. Then I will take the time to educate myself

I was an 84' hire. Figure it out yourself.

Well here are the numbers from the Nic.

I took a middle of the year 84 hire and for round numbers he was number 1000 at AAA. Hired 5-7-84 DOB 1952. so this guy was 1000/2943 or %34. On the Nic he is number 1377/4800 or %28. A gain of %6 and job security for the remainder of his career that was about to end.

Meanwhile, I found a guy hired about two weeks before him on 4-23-84 DOB 1947. AWA number 30/1843 or %2 (actually %1.6) on the Nic he is 595/4800 or %12 a loss of 10%.

So, the AWA guy is now about 800 numbers senior to the AAA guy, but the AAA guy gained and the AWA guy lost. Not only that but the AWA guy was 5 years older and only 2 years from retirement, missed the age 65 cutoff and is now gone, while the AAA guy who cost the AWA guy something to the tune of at least 40K in his last 2 years got to go an additional 5 years and captured the growth that came from the West hiring pool to recall the furloughees and add more behind him even further, and the combined attrition that included the guy hired two weeks before him at AWA.

Now, want to go over what the uscaba seniority theft plan does to an AWA pilot?

Bottom line, the east can take their DOH BS and shove it.

You have been told by every player involved(Parker/Lakefield/Nicolau/Wake/9th circuit) you are not going to get it. It is more than a windfall for the east it is a downright theft of other people's livelihood and will not be tolerated.

 

[nic4us]

Ah, yes.....there's that greedy western attitude, alive and well. It's just eating you up, eh nic?

breeze

Again I ask, how is it that I am greedy?

You are full of it Breeze. You want to steal a West pilots job and you call the West greedy?

 

[nevergiveup]

You're wrong. There are about 2000 of you who want to take captain seats from west pilots. Otherwise we would not be fighting this out for the past five years.

PS: Eat less carbs.

Fence PHX forever for all we care.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Fence PHX forever for all we care.

There must be some who care...that's not USAPA's position even though that would favor the east.

Jim

 

[nevergiveup]

There must be some who care...that's not USAPA's position even though that would favor the east.

Jim

Correction....for all I care. Don't forget the thousand of so ORD pilots looking in a southwesterly direction and saying, "Hun, what do you think about moving to a warmer climate and my having a better schedule?"

 

[Ames]

Fence PHX forever for all we care.

Nope. You want all the benefits of the "merger": job saved, security, growth at the expense of the west. Not gonna happen, you pompous, arrogant easthole.

 

[nevergiveup]

Nope. You want all the benefits of the "merger": job saved, security, growth at the expense of the west. Not gonna happen, you pompous, arrogant easthole.

I thought PHX was supposed to the the center of growth, security, and profitability?