AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

You name call (unprofessional trait), you cuss ( unprofessional trait) and your whole argument is we stay on LOA 93 ( old news trait). Listen, I understand your frustration. Back when your comments were reasonable, thought provoking and respected (by me.....no longer the case though), I understood and empathized with the West position. Read my lips.....DOH IS NOT MY POSITION!! There needs to be some reasonable slotting type of seniority list......which is not the NIC. That list was unreasonable. End of story.

The fact of the matter is the Nic is a "fair and equitable" integration of our two pilot seniority lists.

You are not getting a do over, that is the end of the story.

BTW, my whole argument has nothing to do with you staying on LOA93, that is your choice. I just keep pointing out what a miserable contract it is, while I mention I am on vacation yet once again.

 

[nic4us]

Can't recall their names but one of them was pulling cactus thorns out of his chaps, one had a goat, and the other one was wearing a yellow raincoat.

Okay, I take it back..you are still clever.

Just between you and me and the entire inter-web.....I don't really like the raincoat guy.

 

[EastUS1]

nic4us: "How about FU."...."There ain't a West pilot on the property willing to make a deal with a bunch of reneging scumbags,"

nic4us: "Nothing is settled. Still have the Nic as the only system seniority list at LCC, just in case that merger does happen."

The fact of the matter is the Nic is a "fair and equitable" integration of our two pilot seniority lists.

You are not getting a do over, that is the end of the story.

Translation =

 

[Phoenix]

man are you obtuse. and after all those great anagrams I thought you actually had a brain.


First, we already have a CBA with a seniority list. Does usapa want to renegotiate that seniority list? Yes. Have they been able to...no.

Nothing is settled. Still have the Nic as the only system seniority list at LCC, just in case that merger does happen.

You might want to read up on McCaskill/Bond and how Allegehny/Mohawk works. I hear the idea is they take the two company's seniority lists and combine them in a "fair and equitable" manner.

Silver said so....


A Dissolve, Sir..
Savior Sidles,
Oasis Drivels.
Loss! I Adviser.
Avoid Less, Sir!


Silver Settled It:

"Deliver Test List" aye, aye..
"Revised List Telt".

 

[Phoenix]

Yes, sleep easy, all is well!

 

[mrbreeze]

Yawn...go ahead try to force DOH and then you get your DFR.

But, bless your hearts, you all think you won something today.

Parker is the one laughing his ass off...

Agreed, Parker is laughing his ass off, but at the total pilot group. He is the winner today and you smuggley think it's just a laugh at the East pilots.....dumbass.

 

[westcoastflyer]

If the American merger comes to fruition, McCaskill-Bond requires a fair and equitable solution to all of the pilots involved. The fairness test will not be satisfied by DOH, even with fences. It will in all likelihood be a relative position list, taking a snapshot of all of the pilots on the proposed date of the merger of AA and US Airways. (In other words, like some of you have been referring to this, as a three-way).

 

[Phoenix]

If the American merger comes to fruition, McCaskill-Bond requires a fair and equitable solution to all of the pilots involved. The fairness test will not be satisfied by DOH, even with fences. It will in all likelihood be a relative position list, taking a snapshot of all of the pilots on the proposed date of the merger of AA and US Airways. (In other words, like some of you have been referring to this, as a three-way).

The courts have made it very clear they will not entertain disputes about "fair and equitable" until after a contract is ratified. Should APA and USAPA find themselves tasked with coming up with a fair list that can be ratified as part of a new contract, I think they won't have any problem. There is a growing middle group that is ready to move on, in the event the company finds itself inclined to do so.

 

[nevergiveup]

If the American merger comes to fruition, McCaskill-Bond requires a fair and equitable solution to all of the pilots involved. The fairness test will not be satisfied by DOH, even with fences. It will in all likelihood be a relative position list, taking a snapshot of all of the pilots on the proposed date of the merger of AA and US Airways. (In other words, like some of you have been referring to this, as a three-way).

It will be based on weight or height. Eat more or less depending on which way you think it will go!

 

[luvn737s]

See the problem is right now it would be nearly impossible to get anything with NIC passed, and that is the best case scenario. Going forward as east retirements ramp up starting in 2 months it will only get harder to get anything with NIC passed since the current bottowm 2/3 of the east list is hosed under NIC.

NIC cannot get passed but USAPA has to negotiate for all.........but anything with the NIC cannot get passed........rinse and repeat.

Something else will have to be the list...unless you want to wait till the end of the decade when 1800+ east guys are retired.

No, USAPA needs to negotiate in good faith (for once) and produce a TA for the pilots to vote on. It will pass and then a judge will issue a TRO prohibiting it's implementation. Only then will the fairness of the NIC finally be ajudicated. Oh, that an the legitimacy of any future binding arbitration in any lawsuit.

In other words, don't count your chickens before they hatch, but you need to produce at least one egg.

 

[luvn737s]

I can't see where there is room for USAPA to establish a super privileged West group for distinct and special negotiating and representation privileges/rights outside of the representation afforded all LCC pilots.

That's because you don't understand why ALPA merger policy involved 3rd party arbitration. Once the 2 seniority lists are merged and the airline is fully integrated, then yes, the west will have no special rights. But USAPA chose to play the role of double agent and to favor one side at the clear detriment of the other. A ratified contract will be the proof a court needs to see that.

So enjoy the new sub basement you've dug for yourselves in terms of your co-worker relations. Eventually, and more often that you wish, you will be paired with someone whose career you have helped destroy out of vindictiveness. I'm sure from this vantage point you're OK with that. Get back to us in 5 years.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That's because you don't understand why ALPA merger policy involved 3rd party arbitration. Once the 2 seniority lists are merged and the airline is fully integrated, then yes, the west will have no special rights. But USAPA chose to play the role of double agent and to favor one side at the clear detriment of the other. A ratified contract will be the proof a court needs to see that.

So enjoy the new sub basement you've dug for yourselves in terms of your co-worker relations. Eventually, and more often that you wish, you will be paired with someone whose career you have helped destroy out of vindictiveness. I'm sure from this vantage point you're OK with that. Get back to us in 5 years.

http://deltapilotsassociation.org/dpa-news/2012/9/28/twa-lawsuit-update-damage-discovery-begins.html

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That's because you don't understand why ALPA merger policy involved 3rd party arbitration. Once the 2 seniority lists are merged and the airline is fully integrated, then yes, the west will have no special rights. But USAPA chose to play the role of double agent and to favor one side at the clear detriment of the other. A ratified contract will be the proof a court needs to see that.

So enjoy the new sub basement you've dug for yourselves in terms of your co-worker relations. Eventually, and more often that you wish, you will be paired with someone whose career you have helped destroy out of vindictiveness. I'm sure from this vantage point you're OK with that. Get back to us in 5 years.

Oh you see we do understand "ALPA" and ALL its policies! That's why they are gone!

 

[nevergiveup]

No, USAPA needs to negotiate in good faith (for once) and produce a TA for the pilots to vote on. It will pass and then a judge will issue a TRO prohibiting it's implementation. Only then will the fairness of the NIC finally be ajudicated. Oh, that an the legitimacy of any future binding arbitration in any lawsuit.

In other words, don't count your chickens before they hatch, but you need to produce at least one egg.

Tentative agreement or transition agreement? The chances of ever seeing a USAPA tentative agreement for a CBA to vote on are nil, unless the merger falls apart.

 

[A320 Driver]

That's because you don't understand why ALPA merger policy involved 3rd party arbitration. Once the 2 seniority lists are merged and the airline is fully integrated, then yes, the west will have no special rights. But USAPA chose to play the role of double agent and to favor one side at the clear detriment of the other. A ratified contract will be the proof a court needs to see that.

Not sure I agree with that. Two courts have said it didn't have to be the NIC, but it can't be anything that disadvantages the West pilots. So, a list has to be crafted that meets all the stated goals from the original integration and a comparison on how it meets those goals. Apparently, the NIC is not the sliderule that you were hoping for. All that being said, straight DOH would obviously not pass muster, so let's see if those in power in USAPA are smart enough to figure that out.

Get back to us in 5 years.

In 5 years, there won't be a huge number of East pilots to get back to anybody.

Driver...